Practice Makes Progress: Sharpening Skills for Successful Companion Rescues

In this episode, co-hosts Hannah and Claudia delve into the world of companion rescue practice. They emphasize the importance of honing skills and building resilience through continuous practice, especially in the context of backcountry skiing and avalanche safety. Join them as they share their experiences, discuss the significance of making mistakes and learning from them, and offer practical tips for effective companion rescue scenarios. From beacon practice to digging deep in avalanche debris, this episode covers essential techniques and considerations for anyone who wants to practice their companion rescue skills. So grab your gear and tune in! 

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Transcript

Claudia [00:00:00]:

Surely, you've heard the expression practice makes perfect. At Weatherproof, we believe more in the idea of practice makes progress. Skills take time, repetition, and usually more than a little bit of struggle to develop. This is as true of the skills we hope never to have to use as it is of the skills we use daily. Avalanche skills training is an ongoing practice, but it can be challenging to make time for when you really want to be touring the backcountry. In this episode, we're talking all about practicing companion rescues with your favorite shred buddies.

Hannah [00:00:29]:

Welcome to Weatherproof.

Claudia [00:00:30]:

We are your hosts, Claudia. 

And Hannah. 

Join us as we talk about the raw, real, and relatable elements of outdoor adventure.

Hannah [00:00:38]:

Before we get into that, we are going to beg you to join our email list at weatherproofpodcast.com and to hit that follow button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're watching us on YouTube, hit that like button and subscribe.

Claudia [00:00:50]:

We are recording on the unceded territory of the Squamish and Lililahua Nations. We acknowledge and honor the stewards of this land on which we live, work, and play. Okay. So we've thrown some technical jargon out there already that we may want to clarify for some of our listeners, like avalanche skills training, companion rescue, shred buddies. Let's cover some of these things before we really dive in. Hannah, can you tell us what avalanche Skills training is

Hannah [00:01:17]:

So if you've been skiing in the mountains, you might have heard a little bit about backcountry skiing. If you listen to this podcast, there's a fair chance that you've heard us talk about backcountry skiing. So you're going outside of the ski area boundary and skiing in unmitigated terrain. And When we're heading out into the backcountry, it's unpredictable. Snow science is a whole world on its own, and it's fascinating if you like that kind of thing. But the things that really are important to us is keeping ourselves safe, so whether it's staying out of avalanche terrain or knowing how to manage avalanche Terrain. And the key one that we're talking about today is how to dig your friends out from being buried under the snow if Things go wrong and you do someone does get caught in an avalanche. And so all of that stuff is covered in avalanche safety training.

Hannah [00:02:11]:

So In Canada, that's your AST one and two. In America, I think it's is it airy?

Claudia [00:02:16]:

I have no idea, to be honest.

Hannah [00:02:19]:

I'm not sure. It's called something else in America. In Australia, it's AST. In New Zealand, I'm pretty sure it's AST as well. What about companion rescue? So in a previous episode leading into the winter season, we discussed getting your head in the game for avalanche season. So as we were coming into winter, we covered things like starting to look at the weather and pay attention to the snowpack and getting your gear out. And we basically ran out of time to talk about practicing. And companion rescue is a really important part of prepping for the winter and something that you do Every season.

Hannah [00:02:53]:

And that is practicing that skill of digging your friends out from under the snow. The important part is that we want these skills to be second nature. So, obviously, if you're touring in the backcountry and an avalanche happens, It's really stressful because suddenly it's, like, imminent danger for you and the people in your party. And One thing that we know when we enter that kind of heightened level of stress is that we actually drop a few IQ points, like, our intelligence goes down. We just can't access the same Areas of our brain as we can when we're not stressed. And so the reason why it's so important that these skills are second nature to us Is so that when our brain is, like, working at half capacity, we know what to do. We can just fly into action. We know the steps.

Hannah [00:03:45]:

It's just It's muscle memory at that point because we've practiced it so many times. And that's where this whole role of companion rescue practice is so important so that When if, unfortunately, stuff does go sideways, you and everyone you're with knows exactly what to do.

Claudia [00:04:03]:

Right? So you don't have to use your brain because your body already knows what it's supposed to do. Shred Buddies is pretty self explanatory. That was just a joke. So, Hannah, I kinda wanna run our listeners through the steps of a companion rescue, but we're not Teaching the content of an AST one course in this episode today. So we'll do it at a pretty high level. But do you wanna kick us off in terms of what step one in a companion rescue entails.

Hannah [00:04:31]:

So step 1 is the same as it is in first aid scenarios, and that's Scene safety, size up. Whenever you're in any kind of emergency situation, the first thing is to make sure that You are safe, and everyone that's not currently hurt is safe. And figure out what's going on. It's the same thing as why you often not see paramedics run into a situation to help someone. They'll walk in quite slowly And carefully, because you're you're wanting to take that time to calm yourself down, to think about what's going on, You're not just haphazardly running into a scene so that we're making sure everyone's safe. We're making sure we're doing it properly. In something like an avalanche scenario, you could imagine being at the top of a redgeline, watching someone drop in, and an avalanche happens, And there's, you know, maybe 3 of you up there. If everyone just, like, starts careering down the mountain, like, you're You're all useless.

Hannah [00:05:32]:

Has anyone switched the beacon to search mode? Like, what are you doing? And so that initial thing of any accident Or emergency scenario is, like, take a breath, make sure everyone's safe, and then figure out who's missing, where they are, what's going on, What you need to do next before you start moving.

Claudia [00:05:51]:

Yeah. And the last thing you wanna do is Increase the number of people that you're either required to rescue or Deal with an additional first aid scenario because somebody dove head first off the crown of this avalanche and is now, like, smeared all over the avalanche path. Like, take a beat, make sure it's safe for you to engage, and then proceed. Love it. You're switching your beacons into search mode, making sure everybody is in search mode, possibly designating a leader. If it's just you, you're it. But, yeah, taking a beat. One of my AST instructors was like, imagine having enough time to, like, smoke a cigarette before you engage in the scenario.

Claudia [00:06:46]:

And I was like, What? Really? He was, like, any smokers in the group? Anybody? Anybody? We're, like, no. I don't even actually know how long it takes to smoke a cigarette.

Hannah [00:06:56]:

True. Neither. But I definitely don't think that I would take that long to to figure out what was next. But I like the I like the Concept. It really is that slowing down thing, like stop, slow down. Because especially if you're going downhill, if you go past them, it takes a really long time to get back up. So taking the time to make sure that you don't end up below them is, like, pretty pretty critical.

Claudia [00:07:22]:

Totally. And really keeping in mind that time is of the essence here. Like, you do have time to take a beat and get organized, but As we know, the longer an avalanche victim is buried or submerged under the snow, the Less likely they are to make a full recovery. Okay. So we've sized up the scene. We've determined it's safe. We're going in. What's next?

Hannah [00:07:48]:

So this is the beacon search, and that's the terms that we use is, like, signal search, course search, and find search. And so you're going down their level. Signal search, you're just trying to find a signal. The longest distance beacons in the market at the moment are 70 meters. Some of them are a little bit less than that. And so at at 70 meters, you're gonna start to pick up a signal, Then you're going towards that signal, and then the fine search is when you get closer. And that's when you start to Be a lot more careful about your movements slower, slowing down, getting ready to to probe and shovel.

Claudia [00:08:20]:

Yeah. Awesome. Probing. What's a probe?

Hannah [00:08:24]:

So a probe is, like, depending on the length, somewhere between 240 and 320 centimeters. 2.4 meters and 3.2 meters? Wow. That was really hard to say. Foldable. It's like a if you've ever seen a trail running pole, it's like a trail running pole. It folds up, And it allows you to poke through the snow and hopefully find the person under there without just having to dig up a whole area.

Claudia [00:08:48]:

And then you use your shovel. Both your probe and your shovel require assembly. There's some technique to both Probing and shoveling that we're not gonna get into today, but, essentially, you probe to find your victim. I don't even know if victim is the Best term. But your buddy who's buried. Hopefully, you are able to locate them with the probe fairly quickly. You pull out your shovel, and then you start clearing the snow so that you can access them. What's a really important thing to remember in terms of patient care once we do get down to our, avalanche victim.

Hannah [00:09:24]:

So I think I read this in Abby Dell's account of being buried in an avalanche, And I might be wrong about that. But whoever it was talked about being dug out and Then kind of left. Like, they got their airway clear and then were worrying about whatever else was going on in the scene. But whoever was buried couldn't breathe because the weight of the snow on their chest was so much that they can't you're like you can't expand your lungs, which you need to do to suck oxygen. And so it was just a little reminder of Obviously, make sure their face is clear of snow. Make sure that they don't have a snow plug in their mouth. So clearing out their mouth, make sure that, you know, they're talking to you. But, Also, clear their chest.

Hannah [00:10:15]:

Even if you're leaving the rest of them buried right now because you've got bigger things to worry about I mean, Preferably dig them out, make sure they don't have any deadly bleeds and whatever. But initially, part of clearing the airway is clearing their chest enough That they can expand their chest to get oxygen.

Claudia [00:10:33]:

Yeah. And, I mean, as most first aiders would know, you Aren't really in a position to walk away from your patient until you've cleared the ABCs.

Hannah [00:10:44]:

Yeah. I think in this scenario, they weren't, like, They weren't leaving them. They were just, like, talking, and so the person's there, like, help. But potentially unable to Speak, I can't remember.

Claudia [00:10:54]:

But But even still, like, you're engaged in an emergency situation. I'm not leaving that person Even to have a conversation until I've determined that they have a pulse, they're able to breathe on their own, you know, kind of the basic. Maybe that's just me. Okay. So those are the steps of a companion rescue, all neatly tied up in a bow.

Hannah [00:11:19]:

But what we really wanna get into today is, like, some tips and tricks to make the most of your companion rescue. Because We're gonna go from now on with the assumption that you've done your avalanche training. If not, listen for curiosity. But You're planning to go into the backcountry in the winter, and you need to refresh those skills. It's not one of those things where you, like, do a course and and tick done. You've you've got the certificate that says I can dig someone out. It's something that you wanna be doing before every season and during every season. And It's been fun just to do some research and find some interesting different ways to make the most of it.

Hannah [00:11:57]:

Because at the end of the day, there's no point spending An hour or 2 doing practice if you're not doing a really good job of it. Like, try and do the best you can so that, god forbid, something does happen. You're, like, really you're a really well oiled machine.

Claudia [00:12:13]:

Yeah. And that it's fun. Right? People don't wanna spend time practicing skills if it's not Fun. There has to be an element of seriousness and discipline and and dedication, but also find ways to bring in the fun where you can. What are your top tips, Hannah, for beacon practice?

Hannah [00:12:34]:

So one of the ones that I really liked was getting in character. So trying to really like, instead of just running running a scenario and When you've done it as part of your AST, you kinda know what to do. Like, you just you do the motions. It's like imagine that you are in the situation. And we talked about this a little bit in our fear episode, where a lot of the adrenaline junkies, or as we like to call them fear experts, We talk about running through those scenarios in your head and really feeling the feelings, like feeling your heart rate increase and feeling the physiological reaction that you would have in that scenario so that you can then play out how you would solve the problem. And it means that when that happens, it's more of an automatic chain of events. And so I love that for companion rescue practice, just taking that extra time to be like, alright. Like, really Imagine that someone you know or someone you don't is currently under the snow.

Hannah [00:13:36]:

And how efficient and effective you are with your Whole process will determine their their outcome. Another fun one is using an area large enough. So trying to do it where you actually don't have a signal to start with. For Barovox beacons, that's more than 70 meters. And I think That's interesting because depending on where you are, it just adds that extra layer. Because often, we're starting so close to where we've buried the Transceivers. You know, we're within, like, 30 meters. It's kinda easy.

Hannah [00:14:06]:

You just follow the numbers. But in reality, you might not have a signal when you first start searching. So trying to add in those extra dynamics that really make you have to go through some of the systems, like Either zigzagging or going in in lines and doing that grid search that we know is, like, part of it, but We're not necessarily that good at doing it in practice scenarios because you've just always got a signal so it's easy.

Claudia [00:14:33]:

Yeah. Yeah. And finding an area large enough To be able to do that without encountering another group who's also practicing their own companion rescues, at least in our neck of the woods, can be really challenging. We're gonna talk about this later, but Hannah, her partner Blake, and I did our own companion rescue session 2 weekends ago.

Hannah [00:14:57]:

Yeah. Maybe.

Claudia [00:14:58]:

At one of, like, our favorite local touring spots. And there were a number of other, like, courses going on at the same spot. In addition to a group of 53 events who were, you know, from a local outdoor club. And so you're you're contending with So many different conflicting signals. Everyone is wearing a beacon. There's so much going on, and there's only so much ideal terrain in which to practice. So, you know, scoping out your very own 100 meter by 100 meter region In which to practice, definitely a challenge in and of itself. But I will say that the experience of Conducting a companion rescue from outside of a immediate signal It's really different to starting the scenario picking up a signal immediately.

Claudia [00:15:57]:

And I think there are people out there who might argue, like, Well, you know, if you're skiing in a group and an avalanche happen, typically, you would have seen the person get swallowed up by the avalanche. At the very least, you'd have, like, a Point last seen, and you could converge upon that point. But if you're in another group and you happen upon A group who's experienced the avalanche and they have no idea what's going on or you have no idea what's going on, Then being able to feel confident in picking up a signal is really important.

Hannah [00:16:30]:

And, also, have you ever seen the cloud that an avalanche can produce? You might have seen the last known point, but you have no idea how much further down or like, they could easily be Significantly further away from you than what you initially thought they would be.

Claudia [00:16:46]:

Yep. Absolutely. One of the things that you've got down is practice doing rescues up and down slope, which I think is brilliant. Usually, I'm practicing in, like, a flat meadows type area. Downhill is easy. Having to make your way uphill to complete a companion rescue is definitely something I'm gonna start implementing in my practice sessions because I never or do that.

Hannah [00:17:12]:

Yeah. And it's just it's just one of those things to, like, point out that we'd like to think that we're always gonna be above them, but You might not be. And, oh my god, I hope that never happens to me. But if you are below them, it's just a different scenario. What does that look like? I I love the idea of trying to find avalanche debris and practicing in that. Obviously, you've gotta be careful where you are. But just, like, I wouldn't necessarily do a full companion rescue scenario in that depending on what the situation was, but just, like, Having a bit of a play around with a dig and, like, walking up and down or, like, even just, like, skiing down it and seeing how how that feels because we're always doing pretty much always doing companion rescue stuff in Pretty nice to know. It's, like, pretty easy.

Hannah [00:17:56]:

But the other way to simulate that is to do You're digging and everything wear a plow in, so that's where the snow is gonna be pretty similar to what avalanche debris is like, basically. You know? And I thought that was cool because, Again, we're so often practicing in snow that we've just, like, dug up and moved around that's pretty light and fluffy and easy. So Getting a snowbank and bearing something in there and digging that up to give you just a feel for how hard it actually would be.

Claudia [00:18:27]:

Yeah. Absolutely. And bearing it deep enough that you are required to dig to the extent that you might have to if you were, you know, actually uncovering an avalanche victim. Right? Like, typically, you'd be expecting your victim to be a meter or more under the surface of the snow. And digging that person out is a serious workout. Having a real sense of what you're getting yourself into, I think, is important. Being able to, like, build up that resilience and that stamina and the mental game.

Hannah [00:19:02]:

I feel like it's a it's a bit like hanging out with children as contraception. Like, if you actually buried a transceiver 1 and a half meters down in a snowbank or something flare of that concrete type snow And you dug it out by yourself, assuming that you were, you know, touring just to a view and your partner got buried. Like, I I think, for me, it would I don't particularly love touring just as a pair anyway because of that thing. Like, if they do get buried, only 1 of you dig out like, that's terrifying. But also just yeah. A little bit of that. I really obviously, you don't wanna get caught in an avalanche anyway. But If you had that experience of really having to dig a big enough hole to pull someone out of half meters down in concrete snow, it's like Really putting that in your head as to what that would really be like.

Claudia [00:19:55]:

Yeah. I totally agree. I think anywhere where you can bury a a practice transceiver Over a meter deep is amazing to hone your fine search skills because it's so easy to Feel a successful probe strike when your practice transceiver is only buried like 30 centimeters below the surface or 50 centimeters or 60 centimeters, whatever. But, you know, if you're in a position where you're needing to Locate the lowest number in your find search and then get your probe out and probe at depth. You get a much better sense of, like, what a successful probe strike feels like.

Hannah [00:20:37]:

Yeah. Totally. And part of the whole, like, making it real thing is doing things like timing And, you know, bearing like, look at that chart that's depth versus time versus survival, and Bury it deep and set a timer and time yourselves and think about how that would feel if you were under the snow and how it would feel if if that was someone that you knew that was under there and you were trying to find them. And then adding in the extra factors like those deeper burials and the multiple burials, and To to really try and think how that would play out in a situation where there's 1 or 2 of you on the surface and 2 or 3 of you below the surface, how are you gonna do that? Because it's all that stuff that you just want it to be right at the top of your mind. As If it happens and you've got multiple people under, what's your 1st move?

Claudia [00:21:28]:

Yeah. And, I mean, when I take students out into the backcountry, We will typically do, like, a 2 to 3 day avalanche skills training program, you know, in a front country setting, not an avalanche terrain where we teach them these skills. Their test, like, the test that they have to pass, is a 3 aerial test within 10 minutes. So they have to find then successfully probe with confidence three different practice transceivers within a 10 minute time frame.

Hannah [00:22:03]:

And dig them up?

Claudia [00:22:04]:

They don't have to dig them up. We really focus on, like, their ability to Pick up a signal. Follow it. Do the core search. Do the fine search. Think about how they take their gear off and how they're gonna manage their gear and then deploying their probes and their shovels and then, you know, successfully probing. And so we confirm that the probe strikes are successful, and then they can move on. But it's really impressive to see what people can accomplish, and there was always, Always the element of performance anxiety leading up to it, but to see how confident the students It's felt afterwards, and being able to see them apply those skills in the backcountry was really cool.

Claudia [00:22:48]:

I got a lot of practice setting up just transceiver courses and digging and burying practice transceivers. One of the things I wanted to mention, like, as a tip is We would put the Praxis transceivers in stuff sacks, and then we would do our best to fill those stuff sacks with, like, you know, Spare plastic bags or packing peanuts or anything that would give it some shape to then be buried, and then we would put a wooden board over top of the transceivers and the stuff sacks. And that just gave a little bit more structure to the practice transceiver. The transceiver before it went into the soft sack was put in the Rubbermaid container just to protect it. So we had this, like, pretty cool system of how we would bury it, and then the students would either, like, probe the bag or they would hit the wooden board. And that just kind of reinforced this idea of a successful probe strike. And so finding ways to simulate What a body might feel like under a probe is something that I've had fun playing around with. Obviously, A body and a wooden board don't really share the same texture.

Claudia [00:24:04]:

But, you know, doing what you can With what you have and getting really creative with it was, like, kind of a fun element.

Hannah [00:24:10]:

Love it. And another one to add in to your scenarios As you're getting a little bit more technical is adding first aid scenarios. So going through the whole process of Digging up and then having a triage system and figuring out what you would do. Because often when we do companion rescue, we're just digging up, and then that's it. But really getting into that that headspace of, if this was real, that person is almost definitely going to have injuries. So what would the next thing be? You'd be straight onto, you know, airway clear, got them out of the hole. Now it's, You know, your rapid body search and figuring out what's wrong with them and and and what goes on from there. Because, again, first aid skills need regular practice as well.

Claudia [00:24:53]:

Yeah. And if you don't have anybody, you know, in your group that has any kind of first aid training, thinking about, like, at what point you Engage the SOS button on your in reach or at what point you're making somebody in the group is making a sat phone call to search and rescue. Like, Really thinking about the different elements of the entire evacuation, not just the companion rescue, is amazing. I get kind of overwhelmed in those situations. I'm like, okay. What are all the things that, you know, we need to practice? Start with the companion rescue. And then as you get really comfortable doing those kinds of things, being able to expand out into The communications plan and the first aid component makes it so fun and so, I think, satisfying. And you can really get to delegate different roles and responsibilities to people.

Claudia [00:25:49]:

So if you have a larger group, being able to beef up your scenario a little bit so that everybody can Can participate or has a has a job, I think, is pretty cool. But I'm just a nerd. So so we've talked about tips and tricks or making your companion rescues more fun, the kind of technical side of it. But What about the sort of social dynamic elements of engaging in companion rescue practice with your friends? It can be so hard, I think, to convince friends to give up time in the mountains in order to practice skills that we actually hope never to use.

Hannah [00:26:33]:

Yeah. The first step is prioritizing, Being the safety nerd, making it a thing. And, I mean, I think it's getting pretty accepted in the community now that this is something that we do. Like, it's not uncool to practice companion rescue. But it's easy to get, you know, excited about the season and wanna get out there and start doing stuff. But As you and I experienced in our scenario, you need to do this pretty much immediately in the season Because you're just not as good as you think you are. So yeah. Convincing people to take the time.

Hannah [00:27:06]:

And it's the thing of, like, If I'm going out into the mountains, I wanna make sure I'm, like, good at it, but I also wanna make sure the people that I'm going out with have done it too. Because It might have been a few years since you did your avalanche course. And did you practice last year? And how many times did you practice? Like, on patrol, you're You're doing your beacon searches once a week. Every week, you have to do your searches, and that's multiple burials and burials on top of each other and all the complicated things. But In industry, they're doing it all the time.

Claudia [00:27:38]:

Yeah. And I think social media is doing a really great job of normalizing that kind of practice. A friend of mine is a tail guide at Bald Face Lodge, and their entire team does Avalanche skills training for, like, it seemed like weeks. Like, I I don't actually think it was that long. But, you know, they're posting all the time about their avalanche safety training program, avalanche skills practice, and and they're engaging with it in a fun but, like, Really committed way. Seeing that on social media makes me so happy because it's it just normalizes it. Right? It makes it, like you said, kind of a standard rather than, like, a

Hannah [00:28:20]:

You're trying too hard. Exactly. Yeah. Alex I follow Alex Armstrong on Instagram, and she's a Teton gravity athlete, Epic professional skier. And they just spent the last couple of days somewhere in the backcountry. I don't actually know where. All of the Teton Gravity athletes, by the looks of it, doing full on scenarios. Yeah.

Hannah [00:28:43]:

Like, they were doing all the avalanche stuff and, like, full packaging and tobogganing them out of there and, like, full rescue. Because those athletes are spending most of the winter In the backcountry skiing gnarly shit Yep. In avalanche terrain where, unfortunately, when you're pushing the limits like that, people get In gym. Yeah. And so they're making sure that all of their athletes know how to look after each other the best way possible and rescue and get them out of there. And I thought that was really Cool to see.

Claudia [00:29:15]:

Yeah. It's always cool, I think, when the pros are paving the way for the amateurs. Like, set set the standard. Be the role models.

Hannah [00:29:24]:

It's like the behind the scenes of all the ski movies. Like, we don't you know, you you see all the cool lines, and you're like, oh my god. Wow. That's amazing. And then you see all the work that goes into, like, Assessing the avalanche conditions and then doing the practice and having all the skills. And you're like, yeah. This isn't just it's fun, but it's not fun all the time.

Claudia [00:29:40]:

Yeah. I think one of The easiest ways to convince friends to engage in that kind of practice with me has been to have, like a pretty dialed plan to offer or suggest. Like, especially if it's someone who's not used to practicing, I like to, you know, kind of paint the picture. I didn't feel the need to with you and with Blake because I know we're kind of on the same wavelength there. But even in our experience, We probably could have, like, done a better job of mapping out expectations and how we wanted the day to flow and that kind of thing. So I really think, you know, surprise surprise, preparation is one way to ease any reluctance on behalf of our friends in in regards to showing up for practice. I think the other thing about companion rescue scenarios from, like, a social dynamic standpoint is that it really requires being vulnerable with the people that you wanna impress. Right? Like, nobody wants to look like they don't know what they're doing in the backcountry because they don't want the people that they ski with to be like, I'm not trusting you with my life.

Hannah [00:30:56]:

Yeah. I remember my AST 2. One of the scenarios that we did was in the dark. I did my AC 2 at one of the huts in the backcountry in Whistler. So we spent 4 days out there, which was amazing. Highly, highly recommend To do it at a heart because you just get so much more time to talk and ask questions and nerd out for 4 whole days. And She'd set it up. So it the transceiver was actually buried, like, kind of above a wind lip.

Hannah [00:31:23]:

So we skied down but then, like, had to go back up. And I took my skis off too early. And then I was trying to get out this windlet, which was way deeper than I was expecting, and I basically ended up being entirely useless. Like, by the time I got there, everything was done. And I just remember Feeling so much shame. Like, so embarrassed that Yeah. You know, we've been doing this for a few days, and I just, like, Didn't help. And I think, for me, it's part of, like, priding myself on being good at things and Being useful and handling myself really well in stressful emergency situations, I think that's one of my great strengths.

Hannah [00:32:06]:

And then When you fuck up, you're like, this isn't who I am. It's like cognitive dissonance. And And, yeah, it's it's being willing to put yourself in a situation where you are intentionally trying to make it hard So that you do make mistakes, so that it is challenging, so that you don't do it perfectly, so that you learn and practice and, you know, doing those Multiple burials and getting into character and making it complicated and yeah. And being willing to look bad and taking more than 10 minutes To find your person and dig them out. So, you know, maybe they're dead by then. Like, just and being okay with that. And yeah. That's that's not a great feeling.

Hannah [00:32:49]:

You kinda wanna You wanna make it super easy so that you can you know, it's 20 meters away, and you go straight there and you dig a mark, and you go, yeah. See, I'm good at this. But that's not helping that's not helping you get better.

Claudia [00:33:00]:

Totally. And, you know, are you, unfortunately, being in that position of, like, making a mistake, you were sacrificing your own pride and confidence for the sake of the learning of everybody in that group. Right? Like, literally everybody who participated in that rescue We'll forever think about not taking their skis off too early.

Hannah [00:33:22]:

Yeah. Totally.

Claudia [00:33:23]:

And that is fantastic. The the role that you played in that rescue was exactly what the instructor was probably hoping somebody was gonna do.

Hannah [00:33:32]:

I'll take it.

Claudia [00:33:33]:

There are a 1000000 mistakes that you could make in a companion rescue scenario. And I think one of my favorite expressions when it comes to making mistakes is fail early, fail often. The time to make those mistakes to the time to learn is during those practice scenarios. Make all the mistakes in those situations, But the fear of being judged by your friends, the the fear of that judgment leading to serious repercussions like not being invited to go into the backcountry with The people that you wanna ski with, that fear can really hold us back.

Hannah [00:34:06]:

Yeah. And it's the thing is that you really do wanna be Making mistakes, and you do wanna be making it hard because that's where you're gonna learn. Yeah. So, yeah, it's that willingness to kind of Jump in and and fail instead of just I don't know. I I definitely can have an attitude of going into those expecting to always be successful, and And you want to not so that you do learn because yeah. You'd way rather learn in in that situation.

Claudia [00:34:33]:

Yeah. I get real imposter syndrome in those Situations where I'm required to really put my skills on Mhmm. Display, and I I always feel So much stress. And then as soon as I'm in the scenario, like, once things are underway, then I settle in, and I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay. Even if things go horribly wrong, like, I'm just, like, stoked that I'm engaging in this activity. But, you know, Practicing for Murphy's Law, anything that can go wrong will go wrong, really sets you up for success when shit does hit the fan. I was thinking about this, and I am very rarely in the backcountry With couples, it's happened more in the last, like, year.

Claudia [00:35:20]:

But doing A beacon practice or doing a companion rescue practice with you and Blake a couple weekends ago was the first time that I've really seen, like, relationship dynamics at play in a rescue scenario. Can you, like, talk a little bit about what it felt like To be out there with Blake engaged in a companion rescue together where you were working together?

Hannah [00:35:44]:

Yeah. So he actually brought this up. Went to an Avalanche info night on Friday night. They were talking about a bunch of stuff, and it was really interesting. And at one point, One of the guides and presenters was asking a question of, you know, what are some of the things that feed into heuristic Type stuff. And Blake was like, relationships. And I could've, like, hoped the ground would To wallow me. I was like, that Nick, I was like, oh my god.

Hannah [00:36:14]:

I'm so embarrassed. My face is definitely bright red. And we left. And I was like, do you realize that you said that and that was really embarrassing? He's like, yeah. But it's true. I was like, I know. But

Claudia [00:36:24]:

My feelings.

Hannah [00:36:25]:

My pride. But, yeah, that was really funny because in that scenario, we kind of rushed into the companion rescue part a little bit because we'd gone into the warming hut at Red Heather, And there was these 53 students there, and it was mayhem. And a bunch of them couldn't ski, and we'd heard them say that they wanted to be back at the car park by 4. And so we were like, right. We wanna get this companion rescue done and get out of here because we do not wanna be skiing back down this fire road with a bunch of people that can't ski around. That sounds terrible. And I was I was not going into character. I was not thinking about my learning.

Hannah [00:37:00]:

I had not done a companion rescue with Blake before because we've been together for 2 years this Saturday. And Pretty much that entire time I've been injured and not touring in the backcountry. So it was our 1st time doing anything like that together, And he has less experience than me, so I just, like, assumed this role of teacher. Instead of We were doing a companion rescue scenario. Do the companion rescue scenario. Get into character. Approach it as you're trying to rescue someone. I was, like, kind of Telling him what he was doing right and wrong instead of just being his companion rescue partner, which was hilarious because then It meant that I wasn't focusing on what I should be doing.

Hannah [00:37:44]:

This is, like, classic relationship. I wasn't focusing on what I should be doing. I wasn't getting my probe out and getting my skis off in time and, like, Getting things ready because he was in front and had had the closest signal. I was more worried about what he was doing. And And that applies to relationships. But even just anything in that scenario is trying to work As a team, obviously, you wanna be aware of what other people are doing. Because if someone is totally off the mark with their beacon search, you You wanna not be, like, following blindly, but at the same time, staying in your role. And if they're getting down to their fine search and they have the closest No.

Hannah [00:38:23]:

You can leave them to it and and get the next thing ready for the next step in the process.

Claudia [00:38:29]:

Yeah. I mean, that's Some really incredible self awareness, and thank you so much for sharing your perspective on that experience because I've been thinking about it since and being like, okay, right. Like, when Hugh and I get in the backcountry and we're, like, practicing our companion rescues, like, How are we gonna do this? And I really think I mean, you and I talked about this, but we skipped that step of reviewing the phases of a companion rescue and taking a minute to chat about what we wanted the scenario to look like and what we wanted to get out of the scenario. And I think That would have really set the stage in a way that we rushed or didn't even think about doing. And I was reflecting on this later. I have so much experience facilitating companion rescue sessions as a teacher and very little with friends. And I'm so conscious of not being

Hannah [00:39:31]:

this Luke's

Claudia [00:39:33]:

teacher or, like, Claudia, outdoor educator with my friends because it's so obnoxious. Like, I can I can hear my voice when I shift into and yeah? So I so I think, like, those are my own kind of challenges to work Work through in those scenarios is being like, okay. What do I want this to look like? And, you know, what role do I want to take? And and, You know, what do I not need to micromanage? And, again, like, coming back to just really having that plan and then following the steps. Right? You're like, okay. This is what practice looks like. Any other kinda social dynamic pieces like the relationship specifically? Like, do you have a friend that you go out into the backcountry with, that you feel 0 qualms about being totally vulnerable with, that you engage in these practice sessions with regularly that you kind of you know each other's rhythms so well that you can just seamlessly get down to business.

Hannah [00:40:31]:

Probably not to that level these days anyway. Like, I've been out of the backcountry for the last couple of years, so I'm only just getting back into it now. And so one of my good friends, we did Our ASD 2 together and our crevasse rescue together, and I think we work really well in the backcountry. I don't know that I could say it was at a level of, like, Seamlessly, you know, in sync. But that's definitely the goal with the people that I go out with regularly is to do Enough practices. And I do wanna get a bunch more practices in in the next few weeks, especially while the snow is trash anyway, With different people to see the different ways that the different people that I go into that country with do companion rescue and to see the way that they handle things. Just so you know, The people that you're regularly touring with, what are they like in these situations? And and how do you work? So that If something does go down, you're like, okay. I I know what role you play, and I know what role I play, and and we can slot straight into that.

Claudia [00:41:31]:

Yeah. I also think it's such good practice in terms of encountering, like, the kinds of lunging dynamics and conversations that you would probably end up having in a real rescue scenario because there are so many of those heuristic traps that rear their ugly heads. Right? Like, navigating people's egos and people's fears and people's Need for control, like, all of those things would play a part in how a rescue is conducted. And if you can practice navigating those conversations so that You do get the best result out of the group. I think that's why you practice.

Hannah [00:42:13]:

And that's where things Like, verbalizing is so important. You do it in first aid as well. Alright. Everyone, put your beacons into search. I'm gonna be the leader or you're gonna be the leader, and then We're gonna do this. And then when you get to 10 meters, yell out. And then when you get from 10 meters down, yell out. And then you're getting a probe out.

Hannah [00:42:31]:

I'm getting a shovel out. And just verbalizing what you're doing and what other people are doing so that everyone knows what's happening helps everything stay a little bit calmer and helps everyone stay formed and stops all of the assumption stuff where you think the other person is doing this and they think you're doing something else. Whereas if you're all verbalizing it, Then you're stopping some of that assumedness happening.

Claudia [00:42:53]:

I think also segues really nicely into being able to give and receive feedback at the end of these kinds of practice sessions in a way that's really constructive and effective in establishing good skills. And Giving and receiving feedback is always tricky. People like to receive feedback in certain ways or, you know, like to have time to process their experience before they receive feedback. Not everyone is comfortable giving feedback or doesn't really know what kind of feedback to give. And that that aspect of a companion rescue practice session, like, can be tricky.

Hannah [00:43:34]:

Yeah. And not everyone likes public feedback. Would you rather I told you by yourself? I think it's that collective buy in thing. You know, I I'm picturing a group of Six people deciding to do companion rescue practice together, standing around in a circle and being like, alright. How are we gonna do feedback today? And then if you all buy in, then you all know that What you're looking for and what kind of feedback you're gonna give. And then you're also prepared for what kind of feedback you're gonna receive instead of suddenly getting feedback that You didn't invite.

Claudia [00:44:04]:

That's my MO. It, like, never comes from a place of anything other than, Like, wanting to highlight what people did well and, like, giving people a direction to to work on. But it's my teacher. It's, like, the Outdoor educator in me, that need to both receive and give feedback is, like, woven into my DNA. Other feedbacks out of my mouth before I'm like, ah, Claudia, mind your fucking business. Like, nobody asked you. You didn't even talk about feedback. Like, you should've asked.

Claudia [00:44:34]:

I think that realm of feedback has the potential for so many pitfalls, and and I think you're exactly right. Get collective buy in. Figure out how you're gonna do that feedback piece, whether you're gonna do it at all or, you know, is that what the b at the end of the session's gonna be for?

Hannah [00:44:50]:

And I like The idea, in general, in life of, like, 1% improvements. I mean, I think in companion rescue, you wanna make maybe bigger improvements because it's not, like, over the course of a year. But Just coming in with the attitude and approach of I want to get better at this, it's it's back to what we were talking about at the start of this section of Not wanting to prove I'm so good and I know what I'm doing. It's like trying to remember, I'm coming in with this with I want to Improve my skills. And so tell me what you think went well, what didn't what did I communicate clearly, what did I not, So that I can be better in the next scenario or or in real life scenarios.

Claudia [00:45:32]:

Totally. And I think assuming best intentions goes a long way. Assume that everyone is trying their hardest in these scenarios. Assume that everyone giving feedback is doing so for the sake of your own growth. I think really being able to take a beat and say, okay. Yeah. Like, this is meant to be a learning opportunity. One of the ways in which we learn is by getting feedback.

Claudia [00:45:57]:

This is a great opportunity for me to decide whether I'm going to, like, Accept the feedback or take it with a grain of salt or whatever. You mentioned earlier too that you like working with different Groups of skiers that because it's nice to see what other people do or how they share information or what their approach is, and and being able to have that opportunity to share knowledge and experience in effective ways in order to accomplish rescues is really what we're looking for at the end of the day. Thinking about it as, like, a holistic process rather than getting hung up on the on the details, you know, like, being able to kinda keep in mind what really matters in a real rescue versus, Like, what is just icing on the cake? Like, if we were gonna be perfect, what would that look like? Versus, like, what's the most important What are the most important elements to keep in mind and to to get right in a real scenario?

Hannah [00:46:57]:

Yeah. It's like things like keeping your gear together, like, trying not to get stuff Brewing everywhere so that if they have to call in the Abbey dogs or whatever, it's not just, like, stuff scattered everywhere. And, yes, that's best practice. Absolutely. But If you're trying to dig your friend out from under the snow, are you worried about where you put your gloves? Or are you just, like, And they're doing everything you can to save them. Yeah.

Claudia [00:47:22]:

Little bits and pieces like that. Being able to take a step back and and weigh the things that matter versus the things that we, like, want to be perfect because we wanna be perfect.

Hannah [00:47:32]:

And that's what you said about focus on what matters and then slowly integrate more things. It's the same with get really dialed in your basic rescue, and then start adding in multi burials, and then start adding in first aid scenarios, and go through the process of doing this frequently So that you're getting a handle of things and adding more things on each time.

Claudia [00:47:55]:

Yeah. I had so much fun on our Companion rescue practice session, and I am stoked to do it again. I'm happy to do companion rescue anytime anybody wants to. Hillary wanted to go out last weekend, but I was away. And so, like, just, like, Looking forward to more. Did you have a good time?

Hannah [00:48:19]:

Yeah. It's fun. I'll always happily get into the mountains. I approach ski touring like Hiking. Like, I would happily hike up to Elfen just to go for a hike. So why not Skin up to red Heather and poke around in the snow. Like, I'm still in the mountains. I get some exercise.

Hannah [00:48:37]:

I get outside. My soul is so happy. It's so nice to be out there. And adding in a bit of nerding on the way, like, Down for that.

Claudia [00:48:48]:

Awesome. I have these visions of, like, avalanche skills training Olympics. We have, like, Teams, and we go. We, like, head out to a hut, and we have, like, a full afternoon or something dedicated to All sorts of different activities and stations, and, you know, there's some sort of, like, big prize at the end, and It's maybe like a girls versus boys or like a partners or, you know, whatever whatever the mix of teams. Maybe it's just random, but I think it'd be super fun to kinda work our way up towards something like that.

Hannah [00:49:21]:

A probe station and a shoveling station, and that sounds great. Yeah.

Claudia [00:49:26]:

Let's do it. Costumes mandatory. Well, that's it, folks. Thanks for listening. We hope you felt like it was time well spent.

Hannah [00:49:35]:

We would Love to hear your stories of companion rescue, things that you felt were really helpful to include in your scenarios or little tips and tricks that You've picked up along the way that just make your rescue practices just more robust, more meaningful, and And more applicable to how it really would play out in in a real life scenario. So please message us On Instagram at weatherproof podcast.

Claudia [00:50:02]:

And if you loved today's episode, please share it with a friend and follow the show wherever you listen to your podcasts.