Navigating Hut Etiquette: Dos and Don'ts for Backcountry Shelter Use

In this episode of Weatherproof, our hosts Hannah and Claudia delve into the world of hut etiquette and the unique experience of staying in backcountry huts during outdoor adventures. They discuss the social aspect of hut living, the impact of increasing human traffic in remote areas, and the importance of shared ownership and respect for communal spaces. Join them as they share personal experiences, dilemmas about sharing backcountry locations, and the responsibilities of hut users in maintaining these spaces. From emergency shelters to preserving natural environments, Hannah and Claudia explore the intricacies of hut culture and offer valuable insights into being a considerate and responsible hut guest. 

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Transcript

Claudia [00:00:00]:

As we head into winter, you may be looking at booking hut stays for your upcoming ski touring adventures. In which case, we'd like to offer a timely reminder about hut etiquette. Staying in huts offers a wonderful opportunity to meet new and like minded people. It can also be painful reminder of how hard it is to share small spaces with strangers. Welcome to Weatherproof. Join us as we talk about the raw, real, and relatable elements of outdoor adventure.

Hannah [00:00:24]:

Before we get into that, we're gonna ask you to join our email list at weatherproofpodcast.com and to hit that follow button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're watching us on YouTube, hit that like button and subscribe.

Claudia [00:00:36]:

We are recording on the unceded territory of the Squamish and Lililwan nations We acknowledge and honor the stewards of this land on which we live, work and play So, hats, there are many out here in British Columbia, but also elsewhere in the world. Tell me a little bit about huts in New Zealand. There's something like 2,000 huts in

Hannah [00:00:58]:

New Zealand. That number may no longer be correct because some of them have been pulled down, but There's a lot. New Zealand has one of the most extensive hut systems in the world, just like hunting and a lot of hiking, that kind of thing. Hats just became really popular, so there's lots of, like, old 4, 6 beds hunting type huts that It just first come, first serve, you know, you turn up to there in the middle of nowhere. And then more commonly in the last Couple of decades, the great walk huts. So there's a growing list of What they call great walks in New Zealand and those are some of the best and most popular hikes that they've turned into great walks, which means that they Are a little bit more expensive to book. You have to book them and they also tend to have bigger hats. They're kind of upgrading the hats, because of just the amount of traffic that they get.

Hannah [00:01:54]:

So things like the Milford the Milford Sound track, the Abel Tasman, the root burn, like, some of their really big popular famous hikes or tramps as we call them. And it's kind of just part of, I guess, The culture in New Zealand in in the hiking community anyway? Funnily, like, hats are more used for hiking in New Zealand, so it's more of a summer thing. There definitely is ski touring, but it's not as big as it is over here. And I was really surprised when I moved to BC at the lack of hut. Like, BC has some some great huts, but I was moving here expecting to be able to do, like, a lot of multi days to huts because in New Zealand, you used to anyway pretty much not really have Take a tent now that everything's busier. You often do, especially if you're gonna first come, first served ones because they just might simply be full, but Not having a tent was kind of normal. You could go to a hut and stay, and so I was expecting to try to do a lot of hiking here where I could just hike and not take a tent. Because in Australia, Most of your hiking is camping.

Hannah [00:03:01]:

Like, there's not really a hut system at all. There's not really hats at all in Australia. Right. So I was like, yay, BC. Like, I'll get all these Amazing hut hikes. And then I moved here and was like, there's not really many hikes that you can do In BC that you stay at hut, it's a lot more a lot more camping.

Claudia [00:03:20]:

Yeah. It's true. And I mean, what is shocking is that The longest hut to hut hiking trail in Canada is right here in our backyard and it's the Sunshine Coast Trail So 180 kilometers worth of hiking trails, that's the whole way along. And would think that because that Hut system is here that it's common and that there are many, but you're totally right. It's one of the few that I can think of. And really, like, our culture around hut mostly for winter use as far as I'm concerned.

Hannah [00:03:58]:

I love huts Regardless of season, because of the social side of it? Really notice that when we do a lot of Hiking here, and you're not staying anywhere with a hut or a shared, like, communal cooking space where you just stay in your own, like, insular group At your campsite Yeah. Whenever? And I really missed that my 1st few years of summer hiking in BC until I've I've spent more time lately in places where there's, like, communal cooking areas, even though you're camping. And so you get that experience again where You're just, like, chatting to other people and, like, that whole sharing stories and always getting trip ideas. Like, every time I stay at a hut, you end up talking to someone and you find out about some cool place that they've been and you haven't heard of it and you add that to your ever growing list of things to explore. And that's something I love about hats is just you obviously go into the backcountry with your partner or your friends, and you're there to spend time with them, but then you get to have these really interesting conversations with whoever else happens to be staying in the same place as you?

Claudia [00:05:07]:

Yeah, absolutely. And that's, like you said, what's so cool about the option to access huts is that They're typically used by people who are there for the same reason. Ones, you know, stoked to be ski touring, splitboarding, Maybe their ATV or snowmobile or 4 by 4 club cabins, right? And then Then you need to be a member, but you're still all connected by the same shared love of those activities. You know, maybe they're private for profit lodges, which lend themselves really well to activities like hunting, or maybe they have their own facilities. They've got cross country ski rentals, or they're big on snowshoeing, or whatever. But Regardless of the kind of hut they bring people who are like minded and who have a love of something in common and that generates so much goodwill and and camaraderie that I think we really miss in today's global digital age.

Hannah [00:06:15]:

It's almost the, like, micro scale of what Whistler is. Something that I think a lot of people love and experience in Whistler is being surrounded by so many people that As similar to you in some ways, vastly different in many, but we all have a common shared love for the mountains. And it's quite funny when you go back to, I guess, quote unquote normal world, and and people so different, and you often don't have common ground to find with someone. Whereas, in a place like this, It's so easy to find common ground with people because they probably ski or mountain bike or do something in the outdoors. It's something that you do and you can at least talk about that. I mean, in the in the hut environment, it's like it's like a micro little little community of of those same kind of people. It's like easy to make friends when you've got Something to to talk about.

Claudia [00:07:13]:

Yeah. Absolutely. So hats were built essentially with the idea of, a, offering shelter to people who were travelling to or through remote wilderness areas. But they were also built with the idea of easing the impact of our presence in these remote wilderness areas. Typically, the decision to put a hut in somewhere is as a result of increased traffic. And the idea being, You're kind of concentrating that impact in 1 area, doing your best to manage it, and then minimising salated impacts like all around that area elsewhere. What do you think about this concept that huts are put in, in places where we've seen an increase in human knowing that we're only going to increase that human traffic as a result of the hut's presence.

Hannah [00:08:09]:

It's like that chicken egg almost scenario. The the the reality is, I think, In the outdoors, people can get a little bit, possessive, elitist. I I've been recreating for so long, like, I used to Come here when only 2 people came here and you used to never see people. And now every time I come here, there's a 100 people and, like, that's so not cool. And it's, like, For 1, most of those people are are white white settler origin. Like, this is not your land. You don't get to have that ownership. And even regardless of that, like, these are shared outdoor spaces and you don't own them and you don't get to control them.

Hannah [00:08:54]:

And I get it because it is a really painful balance of seeing your favorite places overrun, especially when people aren't respecting them and looking after them, and It's really hard and also just even I like ski touring, and I like not having to worry about someone dropping in on top of me and Creating an avalanche because they don't know what they're doing and that becomes way more of a concern when places are busier. So there's there's all those complicated feelings around Not wanting things to get busy because of the way people look after them or maybe them not knowing etiquette and how to behave. And then also just we we go out there to be alone, and then you get there and there's there's lots of people there and that's kind of overwhelming. But at the same time, every we wanna get people into the Backcountry. Everyone's welcome out there, and my hope is that by getting more people Into the backcountry, obviously, all the things we talk about in terms of personal growth and development and confidence and all that stuff, but also Maybe if more people get out there, more people might see the glaciers and care about them and all of the impacts that we have on the environment and care a little bit More about the effect we live in, so that's a good thing. And then also the more people that get out there, the more huts we get and the more outdoor brands care about Making gear, like, look at the gear selection we have now because there's so much more money getting invested into outdoor activities. And so Hats is just one of those things where, like, you get these resources because there's more people out there. But when there's more people out there, Like, you need the resources.

Hannah [00:10:33]:

I don't know. It's

Claudia [00:10:35]:

Yeah. When there are more people out there, it's harder to find solitude, so you've gotta go further field, If that's what you're looking for.

Hannah [00:10:42]:

Maybe that's the front of it.

Claudia [00:10:44]:

But it also

Hannah [00:10:44]:

Like, I used to just pop into my backyard and now there's all these people here. And now I have to go really far, like

Claudia [00:10:52]:

Days and days away. Like, I love a Sufferfest, but winter camping To go ski touring is a whole other circle of hell that if I can avoid, I will and I'm not ashamed to say I love recreating in the mountains in the winter. And When the weather's nice and it's warm and it's sunny, winter camping is absolutely incredible.

Hannah [00:11:23]:

What kind of warm, sunny winter camping are you doing?

Claudia [00:11:26]:

Yeah. Not anywhere in the Pacific Northwest. I'll tell you that. And then when you're, like, you know, attempting to do something More committing, whatever. And you have to contend with really shitty weather conditions on top of maybe Riskier activities or riskier decision making or whatever, it's, you know, it's hard. Totally. There's there's, like, comfort in, no

Hannah [00:11:52]:

matter how uncomfortable it is right now, how cold you are, how much you're hating whatever is happening outside, at some point, Even if it's late into the night, as Naomi and I experienced some of the bugger boots this year, like, we didn't get to the hut till 12, but, And we were questioning at some points where the way we're gonna make it. But once we knew we were gonna make it to the hut, it's like we're gonna get there and then it's gonna be Warm and dry, and we can make a cup of tea or whatever it is. And even just, like, if you are on a multi day and you've got wet Gear, like, you can dry things out. There's so much comfort in hats. Like, hats hold such a special place in my hat because of Just not having to huddle in your 2 man hiking tent wet because it's been raining all day and trying not to get all your sleeping bag wet, But you've got all this gear, and now you're in bed at 4 PM because it's raining outside, and what else are you supposed to do? Like, hats are just Wonderful.

Claudia [00:12:53]:

Yep. Yep. And I'm not saying we can't tough it out. You and I are tough. It's just preferable not

Hannah [00:13:01]:

to have to a backcountry hut over camping most of the time. And a lot of people would disagree with me on that. A lot of people love the The beauty and peace of camping in their tent, but I love huts.

Claudia [00:13:13]:

Yeah, me too. There are 2 other huts that I just really wanna mention quickly. 1 is the secret or unsanctioned cabins that can pop up. They may or may not be illegal. But if you come across a hut And you're not entirely sure it's open to the public, you can give it a pass. Obviously, if it's an emergency situation and You need to make use of it, go for it. But there are huts out there that are not intended for public use that may or may not be sanctioned and increased traffic to those huts may mean that they get shut down. You don't really know if you're supposed to be there or not.

Claudia [00:13:59]:

I feel like the right call is to move along. What do you think?

Hannah [00:14:03]:

A lot of those are the kinds of places where you, like, you need to get introduced to them by someone, and that comes back to the question of, like, gatekeeping information. And If you don't know people that are into the outdoors, then when you're getting into the outdoors, you don't have access to all this like secret information. If it's on Crown land on public land, it's for public use. I don't know. I think that's, I think that's complicated. Again, it's like, just because you built the hut in the back country 20 years ago, do you own? I don't know.

Claudia [00:14:35]:

No. And that's such a, That's such a good point.

Hannah [00:14:38]:

It's one of those things that's the same with a lot of, you know, secret spots Or beautiful views where, like, you don't post the geotag location on Instagram or Strava or wherever you're tracking because you wanna keep that A little bit quieter so that people aren't just it doesn't become another Joffrey where, which is a super popular hike in this part of the world where it's Quite overrun and and is a management problem definitely for for BC Parks. But gatekeeping information, like, we're we're trying to move I've had a little bit as well of, like, all this secret stuff, and I I don't I do not know the answer to that. Mhmm. I like some people's approach of They might post something I mean, if it if you really wanna keep it quiet, don't post on social media. But the kind of approach of posting something, Not not tagging where it is, but if someone asks you where it is, you share it so that there's, like, a little of effort desire there, so it can't just, like, go viral and then suddenly Millions of people know this spot. Mhmm. But it yeah. I don't know the answer of the balance between guarding our information to protect places, But not gatekeeping too much that it makes it hard for other people to know where to go.

Claudia [00:15:53]:

Yeah. When I think about these things, like, I'm never in the know. I never know the secret spots. So I kind of imagined that I would just like come across one of these and be like, oh, I don't know what this is. Either I'll go in and check it out and introduce myself and, like, get the story, get the lay of the land, so to speak, Or I'll just like pass it by because it wasn't on my radar and I don't need to be there. But now I'm having this like philosophical crisis over Gatekeeping and whether or not I'm complicit to gatekeeping if I don't do something about it. Oh, weird. The other type of hut and I'm sure there are way more than this, but the last 1 I wanna mention is The emergency shelters.

Claudia [00:16:40]:

So there are lots of emergency shelters out there. As their name would suggest, They're really only there to support folks who are in an emergency. And so we want to avoid planning on spending the night. They typically are very small, they're not typically very comfortable and they tend to have other uses and then they're open for emergencies should they arise. So when we're talking about etiquette, The appropriate thing to do would be to only stay there in the event of an emergency. And if you know that there's an emergency shelter on your route, that you bring your own ant, HARP, shelter of whatever kind you prefer, and plan to stay in your own shelter.

Hannah [00:17:29]:

Yeah. They've got them in places like the Kepler track in New Zealand where you're doing A ridgeline walk between 2 of the hut. When I did the Kepler a few years ago, we had 80 kilometer winds And snow in January, which is the middle of summer in New Zealand. And so the emergency shelters are there to basically Get warm. There's not a fire or anything, but you can kind of huddle inside, get out of the wind. And because the weather Can come over so quickly in New Zealand. You could stay there if you had bad enough visibility that you couldn't see where you were going or The wind was getting really dangerous to, you know, knock you off your feet or whatever, then that's what it's there for. You can stay there the night as an emergency shelter.

Hannah [00:18:12]:

And But other than that, yeah, you're not you're not supposed to stay there as part of your as part of your tramp, but you can if you need to.

Claudia [00:18:20]:

Yeah. That reminds me, we stayed at a ranger cabin slash emergency shelter when we were hiking the North Coast Trail a few years ago, it had been raining for, I think, 48 hours straight, and we're soaked. All of our gear was soaked, and we I think we're 3 or 4 days into a 10 day hike.

Hannah [00:18:43]:

It's literally my worst nightmare of, like, Hiking. You want a wet tent, so then you set up your tent the inside of your tent is wet, and then your sleeping bag inevitably gets wet and, like, Woah.

Claudia [00:18:56]:

Oh, yeah. There wasn't a hope that anything that we had with us was dry. And we came across this Cabin, and it's obvious, like, ranger cabins are super obvious. Right? You walk in, they're typically unlocked, but you walk in and there's they're well lived in. Right? The rangers have left their stuff. There's is a little usually a little stash of food. There's coffee. There's, typically a small stove or whatever.

Claudia [00:19:21]:

They're they're obviously occupied, but we had students with us, and We were so stoked to be out of the elements for the 1st time in 48 hours, and we were like, we're doing it. We're staying in here. We were Super respectful. We put everything back in its place. We, you know, did the best we could to hang our stuff in such a way that it wasn't dripping on anything else. Like, We were so grateful for the respite. It was pretty cool. In general, backcountry huts in BC are meant for outdoor adventurers Almost all the huts are communal so you end up sharing these small spaces with strangers.

Claudia [00:20:05]:

The general idea behind this etiquette and the guidelines that we're gonna share with you is that we work together in order to maintain the good condition of these cabins for everyone who who's currently occupying them and then everyone who will follow. They typically aren't places to have a party and yet, Lots of people will plan birthday events, they'll plan weddings, they'll plan all sorts of, like, fun celebrations in these places. And in those cases, I think the thing to do is to pick a hut that you can book out or that is large and you know can accommodate the numbers that you intend on bringing. But in smaller first come first served huts, I mean, I guess it's up to you. Just get there early. I tend to think of it in terms of what those spaces can accommodate, and what is respectful of all other backcountry users. I think in general, I like to travel in smaller groups particularly in a winter environment and so I'm I'm never concerned, but what are your thoughts? Do you think it's, like, the gatekeeping thing? Do you think people should be able to turn up with However many people they want.

Hannah [00:21:30]:

I think if you're going into the backcountry to a hut with a big group, you have to be so so so Conscious of the fact that you're in a big group. Because, inevitably, because you're in a big group, you take out more space, you're gonna be louder, like, All of that kind of stuff, it makes it less welcoming for other people in that situation. You go into a hut and there's lots of groups of 2, 3, 4, it's easy to join in at the end of a table and and that kinda thing. As soon as you're in a group of 8, 10, 12, it suddenly becomes a lot harder to fit everyone in, and so I think it's fine. If you wanna go in a big group, go in a big group, but just be very conscious of How much space you're taking up and how loud you're being because it's shared spaces. I think the funny thing about Backcountry Huts or anything like this is that it's this shared communal environment, and yet, as humans, we seem to have this big, like, Ownership thing, where Mhmm. Yep. You walk into a hut and you have to, like, get your bed and then it's your bed? You're like, last night it was someone else's bed and tomorrow night it's gonna be someone else's bed, but now it's your bed and this is my table.

Hannah [00:22:47]:

And we get really Territorial or something about our spaces? And so it's just keeping in mind that It's all shared space and anyone can use anything, and it isn't your table and it isn't your part of the kitchen bench. And, I mean, your bed sure will, like, save your bed. But Just just trying to be conscious of the fact that we, for some reason, just naturally get into this is mine. I've put my stake here. I own this now And try not to do that because it is shared and and and that kind of protective, I can't think of the right word, but this wanting to keep this for me, trying to just be welcoming. And instead of Taking over your table and hoping no one sits next to you, saying hello to people and being open and warm and trying to Do the opposite of what we sometimes naturally do of, like, closing off and and guarding our space.

Claudia [00:23:47]:

Yeah. It's such a good reminder. I think people who worry about not getting what's theirs or not having access to enough or Being put out because of other people, they they go into that territorial hoarder mindset out of, like fear of scarcity.

Hannah [00:24:06]:

Yeah. I definitely get like that when you're, like, approaching a hut and a group's coming up behind you, and you're like, quick. I need to get a bath. Everybody, hustle.

Claudia [00:24:21]:

Yeah. I get really offended about people taking up too much space in the kitchen. I want people to be diligent about Cooking and then cleaning up after themselves so that other people can get in there next. Like, to me, it's always about food.

Hannah [00:24:38]:

Get out of Clodie's wife, oh, she will get hangry.

Claudia [00:24:42]:

Yeah, pretty much. At Keyes and Claire, there is a laminated Stove use schedule, and there's a morning one and an afternoon one with the idea that you like sign up for your cook slot for breakfast and you sign up for your cook slot for dinner. And the number of people who just breeze by it and don't even know that it exists, and just jump in to the queue because they're unaware drives me insane. It's like I'm back in grade school and there's a lineup and you have to do this and this and this and then you can, you know, do whatever. I don't know what it triggers in me, but I'm like, there's a sign up, like, what is wrong with you? It's not your turn. You gotta go to the back of the line.

Hannah [00:25:30]:

And that's a good point of when you go into something that you haven't been in before, Like, read all the signs because working in both ski patrol, a backpack patrol, and lift ops For the mountain, so where you're dealing with so many tourists, so many people coming, the amount of signs that we have, And then people will say there weren't enough signs. There was a guy that skied off the back of Whistler mountain a few years ago and got stuck in the cake hole, which is a famous Spot off the back of peak chair on Whistler, and people go down there because there's beautiful fresh tracks, and they think they can just get back and bounce and you can't. You get low enough that you get Stuck and you can't get back and bounce. And he spent the night. It was a really cold night and he was really lucky to survive, but they held him out in the morning, And he did an interview with the local newspaper or wrote an article for somebody and in it said There needs to be more signs. On the boundary of Whistler, there is a sign every 2 meters, like, there's something like 250 Out of ski area boundary signs. It's not a signage problem. It's a it's a reading problem.

Hannah [00:26:50]:

Like, if you're going into a hut And their signs up, they're there for a reason. Whoever is looking after the hat wants to communicate with you How everything works there, whether it's, like, where the water source is or how to clean up or what the expectations are of whatever the rules are for that particular hut. Doesn't matter how many hats you've been into, every hat's different. So if there signs up, read them so that you're getting the information that the people that Look after the hats want to give you so that you can be the best hat person that you can be.

Claudia [00:27:24]:

So the 1st kind of hut etiquette tip we have is research hut rules and guidelines before your trip, know what to expect for the specific hut that you're going to and then when you get there, have a look around, do a wander kind of Snoop in the different places, like do a little bit of like reading on the walls, check out the signage, that kind of thing. It's helpful to know what the hut will provide before you start packing for your trip. But then it's also Just nice to know kind of the lay of the land once you get there and one of the things I was thinking of is I'd love to be calm and cool and collected enough in those moments where I'm like, dude, There's a sign, you just skipped about 3 people in order to make your tea or your dinner or whatever. You know, to to say, hey, Totally cool. You do what you need to do, but just so you know in the future, there's sign up or whatever. But I always feel like such a dick, and so I I hold back. Right? I'm like, I'm not the hut steward. It's none of my business.

Claudia [00:28:34]:

Like, I can just Ignore it. Meanwhile, I'm, like, losing my shit on the inside. But, you know, I feel like there's responsibility on all side. And And it's one

Hannah [00:28:45]:

of those things we've talked about before of that whole, oh, I didn't know is never Mhmm.

Claudia [00:28:50]:

Yeah.

Hannah [00:28:50]:

Is never an acceptable reason for something In the backcountry, it's like, we've talked about it in terms of knowing whose land you're on and what permits are required and what acknowledgments are needed and And all of that kind of thing in today's day and age with, you know, Google and Facebook groups and so many places to get your information Saying, oh, I didn't know is is just that's just lazy, and the judgmental side of how the Claudia comes out.

Claudia [00:29:23]:

That's not news to anybody. Yeah, so we talked about Caius en Clare for instance, that hut is set up. It's got stoves. It's got fuel. It's got water. It's got all the kitchen gear you could possibly imagine, including Coffee makers.

Hannah [00:29:42]:

The hut is insane.

Claudia [00:29:45]:

It's got mattresses. It's got I went to call them hut booties. It's got hut Crocs. You don't even have to bring your own indoor footwear.

Hannah [00:29:55]:

It's wild.

Claudia [00:29:57]:

It's awesome. And so knowing all that like makes packing super easy. It's worth your while to look into the hut that you're going to and figuring out what it's got, what's gonna save you on weight and then how you can contribute as well. The next, A hut etiquette tip we have for you is pack everything out. So as per usual, packing out Your things includes your trash, often includes any other trash that folks have left behind, that's a big thing, Especially if you're in a bigger group, it's an easy way to give back as to just collect whatever garbage has been lingering in that hut for God knows how long, and take it out with you to kind of leave it fresh for the next group of people.

Hannah [00:30:45]:

With the whole rule of leave something better than what you found it, That basic principle that we learned as children really, really apply that to huts. Because when people leave it just that little bit worse As it gets used every day, obviously, they're not easy to access. People can't just go in there and clean it. As it gets yeah. As it gets left worse and worse every day, it It just deteriorates so quickly. So when you're going into those kind of environments, taking the extra 10, 15 minutes To clean something while you're there because, otherwise, it's hut custodians who are generally volunteers or, in New Zealand, it's Department of Conservation Workers. In BC, it's BC Parks Workers. Like, these people are not paid much and their their job is Is not necessarily to clean utts.

Hannah [00:31:32]:

I mean, it is part of their job, but, like, try and make things nice for everybody. And In those situations, they're not getting out there every week. They're getting out there occasionally, so leave it better than you found it. And People often leave food because they think that someone else will will use it. Oh, I brought this out here. It'll be so nice for someone to come across it. It's not nice. Don't leave it.

Hannah [00:31:57]:

No matter what it is, do not leave anything behind. And if there is food there that's been left by other people, pack it out As your pay it forward gift for the next people, don't don't leave stuff there. Yep.

Claudia [00:32:09]:

We took students to Elphin, My previous role every year and my colleague would pack in extra cleaning supplies. And the 1st time I was like, what are you doing? Like, what what is all this? And he was like, at the end of every trip, we clean the whole hut out. I was like, what do you mean we clean the hut out? And he was like, we give the kitchen a full wipe down. We restock all the water. We sweep upstairs and downstairs. And, like, I've I was like, what a great idea. Because we brought students, our impact was significant, but also the amount of weight we could carry collectively was huge. So we would just sweep the whole place out.

Claudia [00:32:53]:

We would take any leftover food, any leftover garbage, and the kitchen was always Spotless when we left. And it was such an incredible opportunity for us to teach our students The kind of standard that we wanted to see moving forward, but also for us to be able to give back a little bit.

Hannah [00:33:12]:

Yeah. And it's like that When you walk into a hut and it's beautiful, it's such a nice feeling. And so knowing that you're leaving that for the next people, just take that as, like, a feeling of pride versus When you walk in and it's gross and you feel a bit shit, but when you walk in and it's gross, do something about it instead of it's really easy to be, like, oh my god, I can't believe people have done this. It's so bad, blah blah blah, and then just, like, leaving. When you walk and you feel like that, yeah, it's frustrating, but fix it. Don't wait for someone else to fix it.

Claudia [00:33:41]:

Yep. What's the next 1, Hannah?

Hannah [00:33:44]:

Going back to the the thing that we talked about with reading signs is find out what the water source is for the hut that you're going to. So In winter, there would often be a spot where you're digging snow out from in a particular area of around the hut, Were you using that for for melting water in the summer, find out where that stream is and then make sure that you're not Washing in the water source or doing anything like that. The the one I wanna add in here is pee in the toilet. I know they're gross, but there's a reason why they're there. And when you have high concentration of people, if you've got huts that have, You know, 10, 20, 30 beds and every guy that's there just pees somewhere outside because they don't wanna use the outhouse, You end up with a problem, so use the facilities that are there. And it helps to keep everything clean and nice and the water sources Intimidated, all that kind of thing.

Claudia [00:34:44]:

Yeah. It's also kind of an aesthetic thing. Right? Like white pristine snow. It's beautiful. You've got these, like, yellow patches all over the place. It can really ruin your appreciation of the landscape.

Hannah [00:34:59]:

Totally.

Claudia [00:35:00]:

This one's for you, Hannah. Keep the noise levels down. You talked about it in the context of snoring. This refers to the idea that typically, hut users are planning big objectives. They may choose to go to bed early because they're getting early starts. And so whether it's Playing music, which is its own thing all on its own or just the general volume of conversation. Lots of huts these days have games or people bring games with them and so groups of people are being rowdy as a result of gameplay. I think it bears saying that just like hotels and all sorts of other kind of communal Overnight, oddgings, there are quiet hours.

Claudia [00:35:56]:

And those quiet hours you can expect are probably a little bit earlier than What you might see in an urban environment.

Hannah [00:36:04]:

One of the golden room rules in New Zealand is if you're a snorer, you take extra earplugs with you.

Claudia [00:36:10]:

So that you can them out to other

Hannah [00:36:12]:

people. Yeah. Cool.

Claudia [00:36:13]:

If you

Hannah [00:36:13]:

know that you snore, there's not really a whole lot you can do about that when you're in a backcountry hut. And as much as I will want to smother you in your sleep, you have just as much a pride to be there as I do. But it's just one of those nice things to do if you know that you're gonna keep people up. Take some extra earplugs, hand them out to the other people that are in your hut. It's just like one of those Things I don't know. It it's a New Zealand's hat rule.

Claudia [00:36:38]:

That's really sweet. I like that a lot. You Because you're particularly sensitive, do you bring earphones with you?

Hannah [00:36:46]:

Yeah. Yeah. I always say earphones with me even if I'm camping and I take an eye mask. That's just I'm a terrible sleeper, and so if I can do anything to help my sleep and even in the hot seat, even if you don't have a snorer, if you have Applied mattresses, they're covered in plastic. If people are bringing their own Thermost kind of mattresses, some of them are super noisy. They're run just, like, rustling around. I'd I'm just a light sleeper, so I I always have earplugs with me.

Claudia [00:37:13]:

Yeah. Earplugs and an eye mask is a great Or

Hannah [00:37:16]:

I'll use my buff as an eye mask often. Like, I'll just wear a buff on my head and And kinda pull that over my eyes, and that will be enough just to block out. Because whether it's if it's in winter, obviously, it's dark at, like, 4 PM, But people can be coming in at all sorts of times of the of the evening or leaving in the early morning, and they'll have phone lights on or whatever they need to to move around. So it just Tries to block out some of the communal disturbance that you have from sharing sharing spaces. Yeah.

Claudia [00:37:49]:

Our next one is leave your dog at home. Obviously, if you're doing your homework, you know where and when you're allowed to bring your pets. Very few huts allow dog. We had dogs with us the first time Anna and I did the Sunshine Coast Trail. And the dog that I brought with us was not my own dog. I was dog sitting. And she was fantastic, except that she had a little bit of separation anxiety. And in Almost all of the huts on the Sunshine Coast Trail, the bottom is communal kitchen area and the sleeping area is on top in the loft, which is a pretty common setup for lots of huts.

Claudia [00:38:35]:

But we were at this one hut And she was down below, everyone had gone to bed, it was quite late, the hut was road accessible. And so a group came in really late at night, and Rosie woke up and just started barking So aggressively at this poor couple woke everybody in the hut up, I had to get out of my sleeping bag, go down, calm her down, Calm the couple down who were super freaked out, and it was a really good lesson, like dogs are allowed on the Sunshine Coast Trail. They're more and more common Now, but it was a really good lesson in kind of the impact of animals On trip, in communal huts, I felt really bad. Rosie was wigged out. This couple was wigged out. Like, it just was a a tough situation for sure.

Hannah [00:39:28]:

Some of the other big, like, principles for hats is just keeping them clean and tidy in terms of gear. Generally, Hut's, no boots inside, that kind of thing. Keep your skis outside. If you have wet gear In New Zealand, anyway, you generally have to hang it on the veranda, like, on the porch. You can't bring it in the hut unless there's a drying specific Drying area around the fire or something. With fires, though, be careful the amount of melted shoes I have seen in huts. So you're like, I don't know how you're getting out of here, but that's not gonna be comfortable. Don't don't put your shoes too close to the fire.

Hannah [00:40:09]:

They will melt. And and that also just goes back to the they're, like, cleaning up thing of keep the dirt out, And then whatever dirt does get in, like, sweet the hut before you before you leave so that it's nice for the next people.

Claudia [00:40:26]:

Yep. One of the things I love is the the sharing in chores. So typically, huts will have Chores that are related to their systems, or as there's typically, in the winter, snow melting water process, and it'll involve a couple steps like going to fill the big massive pots that then go on the stoves that then produce the water and etcetera, etcetera. So sharing in those kinds of chores, helping restock firewood, maybe there's outhouse related chores being available and willing to contribute in whatever ways that you can during your stay is is really the right thing to do. And then on that note, being mindful of conserving your use of the resources that are available so that they can go as far as they can. Only use the amount of firewood that you really need. It's a scarce resource, it can be expensive to supply, it can be expensive to bring into huts And so just being mindful of using what you need and no more is usually the way to go.

Hannah [00:41:40]:

And it's that whole thing of Your hat doesn't need to be 30 degrees as much as you wanna make it super warm because you've been cold all day, like, just make it warm enough. You're you you're still gonna need your layers on Because the cost to fly firewood in and then they need it to last all season, they're not gonna be flying more in. So, yeah. Being, being considerate and it's part of that whole entitlement consideration thing of Thinking about everyone that's coming before and after you and eating up and being conservative with what you're using and and just trying to Trying to think about your impact on everybody else's experience, like, how noisy you're being and and all of that kind of stuff. It's like It's kind of basic things, but sometimes we just get a little bit too self absorbed or focusing on what We're doing and we don't realize that it's 11 PM at night and you're laughing really loud and there's people that are trying to sleep. Yeah.

Claudia [00:42:40]:

Yeah. And on that note, Adopting a really kind approach to, you know, everyone. You've alluded to this already, but, You know, being welcoming, being friendly, starting conversations with other Hutt users, locating your plans or, you know, figuring out some sort of schedule so that you can accommodate or optimize everyone's kind of use of the cooking areas. And and If there aren't stated quiet hours, kind of inquiring if there is anybody who is planning on going to bed really early or going to bed Really late and being able to figure out some sort of compromise, I think is is something else that I would really encourage folks to do.

Hannah [00:43:21]:

One of the other things is about writing your name in the book. In New Zealand, in the huts, there's always a book that you can fill out, and People get worried that it's about, like, chasing you down if you haven't paid your hut fees, that kind of thing. I mean, pay your hut fees if there's hut fees. But Filling in those visitors books, really helpful for search and rescue if they need if it's needed. If you don't get back to your car, They can look at the hut book and know whether you stayed there that night because your fellow guests aren't necessarily gonna know. So just Putting that information in there, if if the book's available, can be a really good thing for Sarah.

Claudia [00:44:01]:

Yeah. And if there are guest books there, it's typically because Either the people who were were responsible for building the huts are really excited to see who comes through and uses them and they wanna hear from you and they They feel really strongly or brings them a lot of joy to read guests' notes. So, yeah, if there are guest books there, like, fill them out. But, also, they can they can be used for for data collection, you know, to support the need for more firewood or the need for more fuel or the need for for something that's actually gonna make your experience of staying in that hut better. So there are all sorts of reasons to to contribute to a guest book, plus they're just like fun to read.

Hannah [00:44:46]:

And the other thing is, Especially in BC, I'm not sure there's such a thing in New Zealand and and other places, but if you Go to huts regularly consider volunteering to be a hut custodian, on one of your trips throughout the year. Volunteering to be a hut custodian generally means that you and potentially You get free hut fees, which is a nice little bonus. It also means that you're guaranteed a spot. So often, they will reserve a couple of spots for hut custodians and their guests. So if a hut's booked out, it might be a good way for you to get in, and it's that thing of giving back. You might have a couple of jobs to do while you're up there and things to clean up, But it's all of our contribution as a community to keep the places that we're going to well looked after and Maintained and and the places that we wanna spend time in.

Claudia [00:45:39]:

Yeah, absolutely. One of the cool things that I came across In my research for this episode was about the Gothic arch design. So if any of you have spent time in Hudson, BC and probably elsewhere in the world too. You will recognize the gothic arch design. Think Wendy Thompson, think Elfin Lakes, Think

Hannah [00:46:01]:

The Himmelsbach hat that used to be up at Russet Lake, a Conrad Kane hat in the Bugaboo.

Claudia [00:46:06]:

It's a very popular design for alpine environments in particular. And so a little bit of information about it at least that's relevant to the BC is that in 1962, the BCMC executive formed a committee to investigate shelter designs for the alpine specifically. They wanted to find a design that would meet a couple criteria. One was that it was simple to build, It was cost effective and it was efficient. And the design needed to be efficient because the work windows were short, Obviously, as a result of weather and time commitments of the club members who were volunteers. They wanted to design something that mirrored the ethic of the mountaineer, which I think is so cool. So strength and resilience in the mountains. And they also wanted a design that could be prefabricated, tools required would be simple and few, Worksites were remote and obviously materials and supplies needed to be flown in by helicopter.

Claudia [00:47:14]:

So this is also why the size and the scale of the huts pretty small and then needed to be assembled relatively easily. The design needed to be able to withstand high alpine winds and heavy wet snow that is characteristic of our coastal mountains. And then what was also really important to the club was that the design blend into the natural environment. Would you say, Hannah, that the hats that you've seen across BC and Alberta, but that mold, do you think they were successful in achieving what they wanted to achieve?

Hannah [00:47:52]:

Yeah. Like the The Connor Cane hut's massive by standards.

Claudia [00:47:57]:

By kind

Hannah [00:47:58]:

of classic hut hut standard? They've painted it forest green, like, the Bottom of it's painted brown. Like they kind of tend to try and make them blend in. Like it took us a little while when we were At the bottom at the start of the hike, you could actually see it. And it was like, oh, it's up there, but it's not something that stands out particularly, Unlike the the keeping clear hut, which is you can see pretty clearly.

Claudia [00:48:25]:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I have always wanted to participate in the building of a hut. There's All of this information at Keys and Clear about how it was built and the team that put it together and I think that would be such an amazing and worthwhile project to dedicate myself to I think in particular that Keyes and Claire like spearhead, traverse Project is so exciting and I can't wait to see it develop. Yeah.

Hannah [00:48:59]:

I know a few people that worked on worked on that building. It would be, yeah, a fun project to be involved in.

Claudia [00:49:05]:

I mentioned earlier that games are a feature of huts that Seem to be gaining momentum like books and games, I would say, but I was at Elfin with a group of students couple years ago And there was a group next to us that was playing Cards Against Humanity. And my students were getting an education in things that were definitely not part of our curriculum. And that same group later that night attempted to hotbox the HUT. And my students were So appalled. I didn't say anything, but they were genuinely ended that this group was taking what they felt were much too large liberties with, or in being much too cavalier of other users' needs and boundaries. And I I was very impressed with them, to be honest.

Hannah [00:50:06]:

Love it.

Claudia [00:50:07]:

On that

Hannah [00:50:08]:

note Thank you for listening. We hope that it was time well spent.

Claudia [00:50:13]:

We would love to hear your thoughts on today's So and all about your hut stories, message us at weatherproof podcast.

Hannah [00:50:22]:

If you love today's episode, Please share it with a friend and follow the show wherever you listen to your podcast.

Claudia [00:50:29]:

Happy adventuring.