Introducing Our Partners to New Activities in the Outdoors

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Transcript

Introducing Our Partners to New Things

[00:00:00] Claudia: As people who love the backcountry, how do we coach partners new to the backcountry without generating conflict in our relationships? 

Welcome to Weatherproof. 

[00:00:08] Hannah: We are your hosts, Hannah. And Claudia. Join us as we talk about the raw, real, and relatable elements of outdoor adventure. 

[00:00:16] Claudia: Before we get into that, we are going to beg you to join our email list @weatherproofpodcast. com and to hit that follow button wherever you listen to podcasts.

This will really help us get this out into the world. 

[00:00:27] Hannah: We are recording on the unceded territory of the Squamish and Lillooet Nations. We acknowledge and honour the stewards of this land on which we live, work and play. 

[00:00:36] Claudia: Okay, so... You love the outdoors. I love the outdoors. We both have partners who are capable of loving the outdoors.

But, how have you figured out how to introduce your partner to new activities gracefully? 

[00:00:57] Hannah: I think everyone's experience of this is so different. Like, everyone needs something really different when it comes to starting a new activity. Especially in the outdoors. I've had it on both ends. Like, being the partner that's been introduced to things. And... being the partner that is introducing. 

I would say that my experience being introduced to things has generally not been great. And so, I'm pretty keen to make sure that when I'm introducing my partner now to new stuff that it's In the way that they're going to enjoy it, rather than in the way that I want it to happen.

Right. 

[00:01:36] Claudia: And I think that's where people go wrong, is that they're so blinded by their own agenda or their desire. And, and it's genuine, right? I don't think there's anything malicious about it, but they're so genuinely invested in getting their partner to love it that they make it about themselves and not about their partner and their partner's needs. 

[00:01:59] Hannah: Yeah. It's like, I love it. So if we do it the way I like to do it, then you'll love it too. It's like, no, actually think about what your partner needs. If you want to get your partner to love the activities that you do, whether it's like backcountry skiing, mountain biking, hiking through the woods, the simple answer is just to ask them what they need.

And so this episode is done. I hope that was really helpful for everybody. 

[00:02:23] Claudia: Yeah, that's a wrap. Just ask them what they need. Everything will go smoothly from there. I promise. No, I don't. 

[00:02:32] Hannah: Do you have a story of when you've started a new sport because a partner has been getting you into it, or you've gotten a partner into it and it's gone well or gone badly, maybe we'll start with gone badly.

[00:02:46] Claudia: I do so many things on my own that it's really hard for a partner to introduce me to anything new. My partner and I have spent so much of our relationship, engaged in long distance that we haven't really been in that position. I've introduced him to the back country, in a number of ways, but I'm curious, do you have a story of being introduced to something and it going badly? 

[00:03:13] Hannah: The thing that I can think of is surfing. My ex was a surfer and I wanted to get into surfing. We were up in Queensland somewhere and my memory of it is that the waves were six foot high. They probably weren't. But, I was on a hardboard. The waves were way bigger and messier then they should be for a learner. I got hit in the head with a surfboard. Dunked by the waves as you do when you're trying to surf. And I didn't stand up at all. I don't even think I got even remotely close to being on the board. And... I remember just going into shore and being like, I am never doing that again. That was awful. 

[00:03:46] Claudia: Yeah. It sounds terrifying. Were you afraid? 

[00:03:49] Hannah: I don't know about scared cause I grew up going on holidays in the West coast of New Zealand where the, the surf is pretty big. The waves are pretty big. And so I was kind of used to the ocean and being tossed around by waves. I just never surfed. We'd only ever had like boogie boards. 

And so after that experience, I just didn't try surfing again. I just thought this is not the sport for me. And then 10 years later, come 2020, I was in New Zealand in lockdown with my sister. 

And when some of the restrictions got lifted and we could go surfing, she took me out on a day where the waves were like two foot on a foam board that was nine foot long. And I stood up like 20 times. I loved it. It was so much fun. 

I was back in Sydney after that for a few months before I moved back to Whistler and I bought a surfboard. I bought two different surfboards. I was surfing every day that I could. I loved it because the big difference was when Naomi took me out, it was small. She was there to help me. I don't even remember whether she had a board that day, like. We were just there to have fun.

It was at a size that was totally, totally doable. Whereas when my ex took me out, it was, it wasn't about thinking about what that would be like as a beginner. It was just, oh yeah, this will be fine. Come on out with me. 

[00:05:13] Claudia: Okay, so I have a question for you because as a teacher, I... approach all instruction regardless of what the topic or the activity is in kind of a similar way.

So, I prep whoever I'm teaching on what they can expect and then I gather materials and then, I chunk the instructions up into manageable bite-sized pieces.. Like I have a formula, and again, I mean, I got a degree in this, so all of that makes sense, but I also wonder about other people's approaches and particularly our approaches when it comes to our partners. 

When we introduce a partner to something, is it with the intention that we're actively and Intentionally teaching them how to do the thing, or are we quick to make the assumption that, like, by virtue of just dragging them along, they're going to learn how to do this and love this thing that we're introducing them to, like, by osmosis?

[00:06:19] Hannah: Before I was with my current partner, I was like, the next person I date has to ski because I'm not interested in teaching anyone how, luckily he can. But say for something like skiing, cause side note, one of my favourite things to do on the chairlift is watch.

When you see couples, like, you know, often the male teaching the female how to ski or snowboard. And I'm like, don't do it. It'll ruin your relationship. But it's just funny to watch. And you can see it a mile away. Oh yeah. You can tell when it's a couple, like it's not friends, it's people in a relationship that are in that dynamic of one of them teaching the other, you can spot that.

And I think in those situations, it's like, I really like this thing. So I want you to really like it. So I'm just kind of going to like make you do it. And then you like it. I think your point is correct. You're not really thinking about what they, what they actually need to be able to enjoy it, whereas.

Taking it really back down to basics and making it really simple, using a teacher structure and making it enjoyable for them in the way that they are going to enjoy learning it means that they're so much more likely to enjoy it. 

The story is told over and over again and, I am going to gender this, it does tend to be when The guy is taking their girlfriend out and teaching them how to ski, snowboard, mountain bike, and they take them down trails that are way too hard and they just end up scared.

And then anytime you think about doing that sport, it brings up fear and then that person never wants to do it again. 

I've got a few girlfriends that. I want to teach how to mountain bike or I want to get into mountain biking and they're like, Oh no, no. I tried that one time. I'm never doing it again. Because their experience was with an ex partner who just scared the shit out of them. 

And then you're disappointed as the person that does the sport because now your partner doesn't like it. And they feel betrayed because you've convinced them to try this sport and then you've just ended up terrified the whole time.

[00:08:23] Claudia: And I don't, I don't think that's overstating it. I think betrayal is the appropriate feeling because they're like, what about everything that you know about me would suggest that this is the way I wanted to be introduced to something new? Do you know me at all? 

[00:08:39] Hannah: And I think that's it. It's the breach of trust. And the... Do you not know who I am and do you not care about me? 

[00:08:47] Claudia: I really wish we had a male voice here because I feel like they would say we didn't even think about it that way. We think about things in a different way and that's why, I mean, I'm just like obsessed with girl gangs in All of the sports that I'm doing right now, because there's just a different approach.

And what I can't wait to be is like so fearless and so capable on my mountain bike that it doesn't matter who I'm going with. I can keep up and I can hang and you know, whatever, but in this learning phase, in this introductory kind of tenuous, if things don't go well, if I don't feel a certain measure of success, every time I go out, I'm, I'm prone to abandoning things like it just doesn't serve me to go with people who aren't interested in really thinking about what I want and I need as a beginner and giving me that. 

But I think that's also why when you say, you're sitting on the chairlift and you're observing this couple and you're like, just don't do it. 

[00:09:56] Hannah: Hire an instructor. Save your relationship. 

[00:10:00] Claudia: Right. I think as well intentioned as it is to want to introduce your partner to something that you love, unless you're prepared to do it intentionally and really think through what that's going to look like, you're better off just saving yourself and your relationship, the, the trauma by paying for an instructor or like putting them in lessons, you know, for a week or three days or whatever your timeframe is months like until they have a level of basic understanding and then you can go out together.

[00:10:34] Hannah: And there's a strong difference between friends and partners. Part of that comes down to attachment theory. Our first attachment is with our parents and there's that expectation of love and safety and care and meeting both emotional and physical needs. And then you form a similar kind of attachment with your partner.

And again, it's that expectation of meeting physical and emotional needs and When you're in a situation where you're trying to teach your partner how to do something, if you are breaching trust by taking them down a black run when you should have taken them down a blue run, it's that betrayal of safety. And then the next thing that often comes up is, I'm scared. I don't wanna do this. And what we tend to do, especially when we really want them to love something, is like, no, no, no. Don't be scared. It's totally fine. Which isn't validating, that's not making them feel heard and like yeah, I can totally see why this would be scary.

This is a way that you could think about it or this is a way that we could approach it or maybe we can go somewhere else and giving them those options and that validation, just telling them to not be scared doesn't make them not scared. 

Whereas if it's a friend, we don't have that same expectation of emotional, physical safety. Even if they're a really good friend, there's just a difference and some of that is still with attachment theory. 

So if you're skiing with a friend and they take you down a run, that's harder than what you are capable of, you still might freak out a little bit, but you're less likely to be like, you don't love me. You don't care about me. You're going to be like, "I'm really scared. This is out of my depth," but the emotions are able to stay in check a lot better skiing or being out there with a friend than with a partner because your expectations are just different. 

[00:12:26] Claudia: Yeah, totally. When trust suffers in a relationship because your partner's put you in a situation that you feel is like unsafe for you or, or that is like so far out of your depth, then it makes you feel like you can't trust their judgment of your ability. 

And so then you end up in this situation where they're like, "no, no, you can do this. You can do this. You can do this." And you're like, "what? You don't even know me. You put me in this situation. How could you possibly be able to judge what I can and cannot do since clearly your initial estimation of my ability was so far off the mark."

[00:13:01] Hannah: One of the articles that I read today that I sent to you and I had a great laugh. It's excellently written. They like to refer to this mistake "as scaring the crap out of them move. Unfortunately, your enthusiasm leads you into dragging your bright eyed loved one onto a trail they have no business being near. Because by scaring them you're losing their trust and then every trip up the mountain and onto a new trail is a potentially life threatening experience to them." 

And I thought that was really well put because It is about that I now no longer trust that you know my ability, and so I'm too scared to follow you down a trail. If you say, "no, no, this one's going to be totally fine, I don't trust you." And so, as we're moving towards wherever that trail is, I'm getting into panic mode because... This is a potentially life-threatening experience. 

[00:13:55] Claudia: The article that Hannah's referencing is called Skiing with the Other Half, a Primer on Relationship Maintenance for a Backcountry Skier.

And it was published in 2011. We're not kidding ourselves, none of the things that we're talking about on this podcast are new or revolutionary. But... Just goes to show how long people have been talking about this exact thing. The other person who has a hilarious take on this topic is Katie Burrell.

And you can find her at Katie Burrell TV on Instagram. Do yourself a favour, the next time you're scrolling, go check her out. She's playing on gender role reversal. And so it's the woman who's introducing her partner to skiing and it's clearly not going very well. I think what sucks is that, we're talking about this as being like a particularly traumatic experience. Rife with conflict and all that sort of thing. And while I don't want to undermine the intensity of feelings that typically come out of this kind of thing, I do want to say that usually the thing that's so tragic about it is that it's unintentional. Right? 

There's this really lovely, genuine desire on behalf of a partner to share their love of something with their partner, and that's so beautiful. There are so many reasons why we would want our partner to come along on adventures that we love, things that we love to do.

You know, one being that they're our favourite person and we want to spend as much time as we can with them. Another that I talked about earlier was wanting to show off a little bit, and Engage in opportunities to be and feel powerful in front of your partner because we all need more of those in our relationships.

[00:15:49] Hannah: It's a chance for your partner to look at you and be like, oh wow, you're really good at this. And you're like, yeah, I know. Yeah. 

[00:15:54] Claudia: And so I think it sucks that often those opportunities are squandered because there's just a misunderstanding in the approach or they're not as intentionally Set up as they could be.

And that's why I think it's a fun topic for us to talk about is because with just a few minor adjustments. Yeah. Those situations can go so differently and we joked about it before, but just like asking your partner how they would like to be introduced or what their vision of being introduced to something like skiing looks like, I think is a great place to start.

If your ex had asked you how you wanted to approach being introduced to surfing, what would you have said? 

[00:16:39] Hannah: Now when I think of surfing as a beginner, it's Small waves. It's, when the sets are rolling in with big breaks in between and it's really easy to get out there. It's really easy to stand up and catch a wave. It's probably sunny. It's not choppy.

[00:16:55] Claudia: You're not wearing a five mil wetsuit.

[00:16:57] Hannah: Yeah, and it is the ideal day. If you have something that you love to do and you want to introduce your partner to it. You kind of get one shot at making that introduction a good thing. So choose a sunny day to take them skiing for the first time, set up as good environment as you can to make that a fun experience because you kind of get one shot.

 If you really love something and you want to introduce your partner to it, generally, you really want them to love it too. 

For instance, I love hiking multi day backpacking trips and I've recently introduced my partner to that and I want him to experience the beauty and the joy and everything that I love about being in the mountains for multiple days. So, to have them reject all those things that you love or not get the opportunity to get to the point where they can see that, it's a bummer.

[00:17:56] Claudia: Totally. And I think the reality is that we are all unique individuals, we're all going to experience things in our own unique ways and sometimes we might be setting ourselves up for failure by wanting or expecting our partners to experience the things that we love in the exact same way that we do and that's the friction. 

At most I think we can hope that our Partners love and enjoy some of the same things that we do but for their own reasons.

Maybe those reasons overlap. Maybe you have shared Loves of multi day backpacking, like the views, for instance. You know, maybe not, maybe they'll love the slog. Maybe they'll love how much food they get to eat on trail. Maybe they'll love waking up in a tent in the morning. There are so many other things that they could love, but as long as they find something, then the goal has been met.

[00:18:59] Hannah: And they might not love it at all. Totally. But at least. Putting a little bit of effort into thinking about how to do it gives you a chance to at least have a pleasant experience together. Even if at the end of it, they decide they don't want to do that. Or maybe it becomes one of those things that they do with you sometimes, but it's not really something they're passionate about.

 I really want my partner to like absolutely freaking love the things that I do so that we can do them together and. That might not happen. 

[00:19:30] Claudia: Yeah. And that would be problematic for you because you spend so much of your time, i. e. all of your spare time doing those things that you love. And so that would have a massive impact on how much time you would spend seeing each other if he never went on those trips with you.

[00:19:48] Hannah: That is one of the, I guess, pressures and balances.

Is the relationship going to work if you can't spend time doing the things you love together? And that's where sometimes when you do. When you introduce someone to something, there is like that extra layer of pressure that isn't there if it's just a friend. Because if your friend doesn't like it, well, then you won't do it together.

Whereas if your partner doesn't like it, you're like, Oh, is this gonna work or are we over? And that's hard and stressful. 

[00:20:14] Claudia: Yeah. And being really clear on those deal breakers, I think at the outset is helpful, 

[00:20:20] Hannah: but not in like, if you don't like this, we're breaking up. 

[00:20:23] Claudia: I don't know. Maybe kinda. 

The last line in the article that Hannah was referencing earlier is, "And for you power couples out there that are reading this blog together while you watch the latest Teton Gravity research film, Waxing your skis and not really understanding what I'm talking about, Well, you can go fuck yourselves."

Which, you know, in an ideal world, people who love skiing, they would find each other and that would be, It, but there are all sorts of people out there who love skiing, who, you know, don't have partners who do. 

So I think the idea is if you don't want it to be a deal breaker, you need to figure out what it is that your partner needs in those experiences in order for it to be worth their while in order for them to enjoy it. And that might require a little bit of extra effort or flexibility on your behalf. 

And it probably doesn't come as a surprise for any of you that sometimes, no not sometimes, all the time in the backcountry I can be quite rigid. I have my systems. I like my systems. I don't really like anybody deviating from my systems.

And so introducing my partner to backcountry expeditions, like Was a really interesting experience for me. And I mean, I'm so fortunate that my partner was like, teach me everything you know about the back country. And then he just went off and did it. Like, it could not have gone better. 

[00:21:57] Hannah: Good student. 

[00:22:01] Claudia: Yeah, I mean, I don't think he would necessarily call himself a good student, but he was really motivated, and it was so attractive. 

Our first expedition was a six day canoe trip. It was the Sayward Canoe Loop, which I've referenced before, and It was a real sink or swim experience because it was six days. 

[00:22:24] Hannah: Yeah, that's a long time to have as your first experience. Probably wouldn't recommend, but how did it go? 

[00:22:32] Claudia: It went really well. And, it was made a little bit more interesting by the fact that he'd confessed, leading up to the trip that his preferred max amount of time outside was three days. And I was like, cool, so we're going for double that amount of time. And what I realized later is it really came down to like the ability to shower. 

He's not afraid of hard work. He's not afraid of sleeping in a tent, any of that stuff. He just loves a shower. And so the beauty of the Sayward canoe loop is that it's all fresh water. So, you're canoeing through lakes and then you've got sections of portage, but you start your day. on the water and you end your day on the water. So there's like endless opportunities to quote unquote shower. 

[00:23:16] Hannah: And what went well having a partner, like it's one of his first longer backcountry experiences. What do you think set that up to be a successful trip?

[00:23:26] Claudia: What was really fascinating and what was kind of cool from a learning experience is that regardless of what the forecast was, regardless of what the weather was doing, Hugh set up our tent and then a tarp every night.

And he got to dial in those skills. All on his own initiative. And I showed him how to do a couple of things a couple of times. And then he just like ran with it. 

 But I think a lot of it had to do with just like his attitude and his approach. Like he was super game and, we had great weather, and he's pretty fit, and so we weren't super physically challenged on the trip. We worked hard, but all things considered, factors outside of our control like went as best as they could have. And so, I think we got lucky to a certain degree. 

[00:24:15] Hannah: And you've brought up there another important point of he was keen. One of the things that can set you up for failure when trying to introduce your partner to something is when you're like convincing them into it, they need to want to do it.

Because if, if it's kind of a forced thing, then if it doesn't go perfectly, which generally when you're trying to learn something new, it's not going to go perfectly. It's like, well, you made me come here and I don't want to be here. At the end of the day, it's gotta be their choice.

It's gotta be something that they want to do. And they're keen to do it. 

[00:24:52] Claudia: Yeah, and I mean, that has bitten me in the ass so many times in the past that I've just stopped doing it. I've stopped convincing people, I've stopped saying, Oh, don't worry about it, it'll be great! I've just... introduced the idea of doing something new together, kind of explained a little bit of how it might go, and then fully left the decision up to them because at this point, it's just not worth the fallout if things don't go well and if they aren't keen and if, you know, they do struggle and, and they lay blame for all of that at your feet.

[00:25:31] Hannah: Yeah. Whereas ultimately if they want to do it and they do want to give it a go, then there's more of that buy in like they're making that decision. They want to do it. And, the other part is, you don't want to be responsible for how the weather is or the way things go. At the end of the day, you're both adults.

They've got to make the choice to get out there themselves with you and with your guidance and your help and whatever you can do to make it a good experience. But if it's their choice and it rains, I mean, it's going to suck. But they chose to be there. 

[00:26:03] Claudia: Yeah, and especially in this part of the world, banking on it raining is a really good call. And so, again, doing whatever it is that you can to make that more comfortable for everybody, you know, double checking their rain gear, being able to come out of left field with morale-saving hot chocolate, or beer, or whatever treat they love most. Like, abandoning all of your own personal objectives and agendas in order to, do whatever it is that's gonna make your partner most comfortable in those really uncomfortable moments. Knowing that that's the only thing that's going to get them out there with you a second time is like really in your best interest. 

[00:26:49] Hannah: And those are the things like knowing your partner. If you know that they get really cold, really easily, making sure that you've packed a couple of extra layers for them, or you know that they get hangry, making sure that you've got plenty of snacks.

And those are those things that are going to build trust rather than destroy it. When you're showing that you know them, you've listened, you care, you've taken the time to try and make this the best experience, then even if it does rain and things don't go well, they feel seen and heard rather than, " no, it's fine, don't be scared," those kind of approaches, which makes people not feel seen and heard.

[00:27:27] Claudia: Yeah. And it really depends on like what level of responsibility you're willing to take for your partner's decision making. But if you're, if you're not going to do things like. Pack an extra treat, pack extra layers. Like the least you could do is put that on their radar for them, given that they don't know what to expect in a new activity environment.

And, you know, they would definitely benefit from those kinds of reminders. Hey, I know you get cold. I'm not gonna bring an extra puffy, but you might want to consider packing yours. Like, just a quick heads up. These are some things, given what I know about you, that you're gonna want to consider and maybe prep for.

[00:28:04] Hannah: And that's the beauty of going out with your partner is that they know about you and so they get to be able to say those kinds of things like maybe you need some more snacks, maybe you need an extra layer. There is that expectation that they do know you and so can give those particularly personalized, helpful tips.

[00:28:21] Claudia: And hopefully more invested. Yeah. Right? And in your enjoyment of things. But also the thing is, when it does go well, participating in an activity that you love doing with your partner, like, it can be so sexy and charged and kind of almost like foreplay.

There's just so much, I think, to be gained by your relationship, by doing activities that you both love together. Mm. And quality time with my partner spent doing things that we love doing is like high on my list of relationship priorities.

And it makes me sad when... You know, it doesn't go well for people or people have horror stories or one person desperately loves doing this thing and for the other person that represents trauma, you know, when that causes friction in a relationship, it really sucks. Totally. And I think it takes a lot of work to build a bridge in those situations. 

[00:29:18] Hannah: So try and do it right the first time. 

[00:29:20] Claudia: No pressure. So introducing Blake to multi day backpacking trips, we kind of got distracted, but I'm really interested. How did it go? 

[00:29:33] Hannah: Yeah, really well. I actually asked him a few questions about what helped both knowing that we were recording this episode. So Blake's very much into the outdoors and does a whole bunch of stuff, but multi day Hiking is not something he'd done before, and so we did a bunch of that this summer.

We did three multi day trips. And one of his big concerns with multi day hiking was being hungry. Mm, yeah. Legit. He's six foot five and eats a lot. 

It helped just to have a few day trips that we'd done. So that I could point out like how many snacks he ate on a day trip. And that gives you a rough idea of how much you need for, for multi days. 

We did our first overnight last year. And overnight's are kind of easier cause if you are hungry, well, you start with breakfast and you end with dinner the next day. Being able to do an overnight, see how much you're eating and then have a good idea of how much to bring on a multi day. 

So one of the things that he said was really helpful was just going through that nutrition stuff with him. I explained how I do my food. I've said this before, I don't eat lunch on hikes. I tend to just have snacks. And for him it was important that he had lunch and so we figured out how to just make sure that he had enough food and that made him feel comfortable. Yeah. 

And then things like letting him take ownership of stuff. So, he ran our trip planning meeting for both Skyline and Assiniboine this year. He just kind of took it on, and then would run through all the things that he thought was important and check with me if everything was kind of... 

I didn't want the kind of situation where I was just dragging him along on these trips and telling him everything that he needed to do. I really want a partner in these kind of experiences, but that involves letting go a little bit of the control and letting them figure some stuff out. 

Our Indian Arm trip, Blake sent you the trip plan because Claudia was our emergency contact and I was driving and so Blake was writing out the trip plan so he wrote out what he thought it needed and then checked with me and we changed a couple of things and it's just allowing him to be a part of the process.

And one of the caveats to that is not giving him too much information. I'm obviously a details person. I plan everything out and know exactly what's going on. And I think it's important for everyone on the trip to understand that, but not just like dumping it all on him at once, giving him bits and pieces as we go through so that he knew what was happening, but wasn't getting an overload of information.

And he said for him, it was about trusting the process because I was showing him the process trusting in my planning and then giving important information. he was like, campsites weren't even necessarily important to him because there was so much information in his head. But like, this day is going to be a really long day.

Yeah. Because even just saying like 20 kilometers or 25 kilometers, that doesn't mean a lot unless you've done that. Like it's, that obviously sounds like a long way, but to say, The last day is going to be 25k, that is going to be, it's going to be a long day. So there's just that expectation that just, you just knew what was, what was coming and those are some of the things that worked well for us.

[00:32:50] Claudia: Yeah. And I think when you're new to something, you often don't know what you don't know. And so you're in a position where you don't know what questions to ask. And so, you just make assumptions about what 25 kilometers means, and if that doesn't have context, then you don't know what to infer based on that information.

So being like, 25K, like, 25K on flat ground, in non technical terrain, is not the same as 25 kilometers with, you know, 3, 000 meters of elevation gain and three rivers to Ford and the magic dragon to avoid. I don't know. There's an element of inexperience that precludes you from being able to ask questions that are going to be helpful. And they're going to lend themselves to finding out information that's going to.

[00:33:46] Hannah: And that's where you, as the person that knows more, really need to like bring yourself back into that kind of beginner mindset and think about the things that would have been helpful for you to know at the start or think about things that you might not know to ask because you're packing your bag and knowing what's coming because you've done it before.

And sometimes, especially when you've got a lot of experience doing something, if you've been doing it for years, you kind of forget what it's like to not know. And so things that seem obvious to you are not going to be obvious to your partner. And so trying to take that step back, I always say that people that have a lot of experience aren't the best teachers because of that.

Totally. You just don't, you don't realize how much of. What you know is experience knowledge. You kind of just start making assumptions that everybody knows it. So this is just common sense. And you're like, no, that actually comes from years of experience in doing it. 

[00:34:41] Claudia: Or you're just on autopilot, right?

Packing my bag from multi day hiking expedition is like, like I could probably do it in my sleep. I don't find it stressful, it's very formulaic, I have all of my gear laid out in such a way that I can see really quickly things that I'm missing or I can gauge kind of at a glance, whether I'm good to go or not, and that is not the case for everybody.

What I loved about you saying that you offered Blake opportunities to take things on for himself is I know Hugh really worries about being perceived as a burden.

And when we're new to things, we're like, Sometimes not particularly helpful or that's kind of that's the impression that people have right as if you're new to something or you're inexperienced 

[00:35:30] Hannah: You're asking all the questions. You feel kind of annoying. Yeah, you're 

[00:35:33] Claudia: yeah, you're inexperience is obnoxious or annoying or you're useless as a result and again, providing opportunities for your partner to have ownership and be successful at those responsibilities is huge.

[00:35:47] Hannah: And I think that's part of not dragging someone along to something that they don't want to do. Like if you're convincing your partner into going on a multi day backpacking trip with you, then you are going to need to do everything for them because they don't want to be there. 

It's like that bargaining thing. They're like, well, if you want me to come, you're doing everything kind of attitude. But if they've seen you go on trips and they decide that they want to join, then they're coming because they want to be there. And that's where you're starting to approach it as a team so that you're both learning and you're both growing and you're doing this together instead of one of you pulling the other one along by their hair. 

[00:36:25] Claudia: And I think there are all sorts of reasons why your partner might not be interested in going. And if they're genuinely uninterested in the activity or they're genuinely uninterested in spending that much time in the outdoors or in a tent with you or whatever, that's one thing.

But if... They're uninterested because they're afraid or they feel like they're going to be a burden or they have a lower risk tolerance than you do and they're not sure that, you know, they're going to want to put themselves in the same situations that you might put yourself in. Those are all conversations that can be had and should be had, I would argue, before you put yourself in that situation.

So that Everyone can have a little bit of heads up. Those are the instances or the examples of like why someone might not want to do something with their partner that can be changed potentially with conversation prior to. 

[00:37:23] Hannah: And that's where you start to build trust.

If it's, I don't want to go on a trip with you because you're doing all this crazy stuff and I'm not going to keep up. It's like, no, no, this trip is going to be all about you. This trip is going to be all about having fun together, spending time in the back country together. So we're just going to Go to this place.

It's not very far away. And we're going to do these really low key things so that it's fun. And that's your focus. And that's where you've got to make those decisions. If you have a partner that isn't into the same sports as you, but still has some interest in doing them, then you go and do your big objective days with your friends.

And then you reserve a couple of trips a year where you do something super chill and show you might not be as. satisfied or whatever in, in the big objectives that you want to achieve. But if it's about spending time with your partner and building a stronger relationship, then you've got to take the time to do the things in the way that they need them done.

So that doesn't mean that you trick them into going on a big objective. You actually be chill and you actually just spend the time doing the smaller things that, that make them feel. Heard and safe and understood and, and like, they want to be out there with you. 

[00:38:33] Claudia: Yeah. And I think that's the level of compromise that I'm interested in pursuing. If you love to ski and your partner hates to ski, compromise is not you giving up skiing to make them happy. The compromise is you try to find an aspect of skiing that your partner can tolerate. Where it's fun for the two of you to do together. It's, compromising on the objective of the day in that realm of activity. Rather than just like giving it up entirely. Yeah. Because, as you know, giving up something entirely that you love for the sake of your partner never ends well for your relationship. It never ends well for your personal happiness. Like, why is that a thing that people do?

[00:39:18] Hannah: Yeah. It's like, really setting yourself up for resentment. And feeling like they owe you, or... Yeah. 

[00:39:25] Claudia: Yeah. That's why it takes a village. I mean, I know that expression is usually used for child raising, but it applies to adults too. When we put all of our hopes and dreams and needs in the hands of someone else, like one other person, there's no way that they can manage all of that. There's no way that they can see to all of that. And so like you were saying, if you give it your best shot and it goes well, but they're not that into it, go with your friends or, seek out other people, seek out other opportunities, find things that you and your partner do love to do together so that you can spend that time together, but get your girl gang.

[00:40:11] Hannah: I always think of scientific like lab vials and say we're made up of 20 different vials and your partner might fill 15 of them, but you can't expect them to fill 20 like they're not going to be your everything. And so find the ways in your life where. Yeah, you get that filled by someone else or going out with your friends to do your big objectives.

[00:40:34] Claudia: Now that you've introduced Blake to multi day expeditions, is there sort of a next level of backcountry travel that you want to access with him?

[00:40:42] Hannah: Yeah the big one is touring. I actually asked him last night, I really want to do the Mt. Currie to Wedge Traverse this winter. Sick. Yeah. And I was like, well, you do it with me. It wasn't really a serious question. I was kind of joking. And he was like, well, that would probably be a stretch goal.

But at this point, I just want to get out there more. And it's not like I'm super experienced with touring. But I have more experience than he does. And so, I'm really excited. The last two winters that we've been together, I've been injured. So we haven't been able to go touring together. And he only has a handful of days in the back country. But I now have someone that I can go with like all the time. We have mostly the same days off over the winter, so I'm excited to, to see what happens in that realm. 

[00:41:26] Claudia: Yeah. Hugh's new to touring as well, and I get so excited about the prospect of being able to access huts and do some fun winter camping even if they're just short objectives together because spending the night out in a winter Mountainous landscape is one of my favorite things to do.

[00:41:48] Hannah: So some of the things that we think are important for getting your partner to the backcountry is, as we love to talk about on this podcast, is having a system, taking an intentional approach. The big one is they need to want to do it.

They need to be keen to, to do it. You're not dragging them out there unwillingly. Pulling them into something that they, they don't want to be doing. They're keen, they've seen you go out there, they've seen you come home with all the stoke, and they're like, I want to do that too, I want to feel that feeling, and I want to share that with you.

And then the next thing, as is with so many things in relationships, ask them what they need. Ask them how they want to approach it. What are they worried about? What are their fears? What are their excitements? What do they think it's going to look like? So that you can, together, paint a picture of how this is going to work.

[00:42:42] Claudia: Make it about them. Make it about their experience. Think about what their experience of being new to something is going to be like and plan for that. 

[00:42:53] Hannah: Show that you know who they are and you know what they need and build that trust with them by making sure you have the things that they need.

Don't end up in one of those positions where you're breaking trust by taking them somewhere they shouldn't be going or they're feeling like their feelings aren't heard. Making sure that you really are keeping it almost a level below where you think you should so that It's a fun experience for everyone instead of a scaring the shit out of them kind of experience. And then when you are out there, validating those feelings. Making them feel like they're heard and new things are hard and that's alright. 

[00:43:33] Claudia: And on that note, thank you for listening. We hope it was time well spent. 

[00:43:38] Hannah: We would love to hear your thoughts on today's episode. Please message us at weatherproof podcast about times, either good or bad, that you've taught someone or they've taught you and what's happened when you've been trying to learn something new.

[00:43:52] Claudia: If you loved today's episode, share it with a friend and follow the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

Happy adventuring.